Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Virginia Plain] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Virginia Plain wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Virginia Plain wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro



I can appreciate that. But, I feel it's 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other in this case. And your point is just moot. There's still a ridiculous amount of lethal weapons on school grounds.

When I was in high school, there were always at least a dozen or so rifles in the back of vehicles in the school parking lot every day in the mid-fall deer season and about the same number of shotguns in the mid-spring turkey season. That was duplicated in nearly every high school in the state, with the exception of schools in the inner cities of the state.

The curious irony of that is that there were no shootings from any of the rifles or shotguns, but plenty of shootings from Saturday Night specials and stolen pistols in the inner city schools.

So the "ridiculous amount of lethal weapons on school ground" is not the problem, its the people who choose to use those weapons on students they blame for their own problems. Until parents teach their children to accept their own problems and deal with them instead of blaming everyone else for them, we will continue to have these tragedies to face. That is unlikely to happen, because the parents themselves don't take responsibility for their own problems, so they cannot teach that to their own children, who grow up blaming everyone else instead relying on the only person who CAN fix the problems; themselves.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fleck wrote:

U.S Rate per 100,000 = 10.54

Closest other Western Democratic Country - Finland = 3.25 (all other western democratic countries significantly less than that!)*

* Don't look at any other countries - just the U.S. and those other western democratic countries I mentioned - that share similar values, and have similar societies and cultures.

Maybe you should go back and read where you compared the US directly to Finland.

You would have to break the states down individually as each of them have sub cultures much like that of the countries in the EU.

Using Finland as your example, 94% of their population is Finnish or Swedish, sounds very diverse eh?

Immigration isn't diversity, you can try and use it as some moral high ground, but your country is still 77% white, 10% Asian and only 5% black.

Side note, why is Asian the only one that is supposed to be a proper noun?

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fleck wrote:
And the other 1/3 are gang related.

OK, so you don't have a problem!
Sure, it's a problem. The big problem is that we have these violent groups of thugs causing lots of trouble for innocent folks. The fact that thugs are killing each other is also a problem, but I'm not quite sure where to slot it in our nation's hierarchy of problems. Hard to grieve a lot for violent thugs that end up being victims of the evil culture they maintain.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Spiridon Louis] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?

Who cares what the numbers are? ONE is too many!
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fleck wrote:
2/3 of that US number are suicides.

And that's the same as in all those other western democratic countries.


You are OK with that?


In the context of school shootings and gun control, suicides are a non-starter. No one is committing suicide with an AR-15.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe you should go back and read where you compared the US directly to Finland.


I didn't compare it directly to Finland, it just so happens that Finland is the first of the rest of the western democratic countries on the list. They are all LESS than Finland.

Some here are going on about diversity in the U.S. - yes this is true, but Canada is very diverse as well by immigration perhaps more so than the U.S. and I did note to NOT get caught up in the individual country to country comparison to the U.S. but that all of these countries - Canada, all of Europe, Australia, NZ and a number of other "western democratic" countries have a total population of 1billion+, and in total they all have a VERY different position and attitude when it comes to guns.

This is an issue that the U.S. Stands completely alone and apart-from any other comparable population or collection of countries around the world. There's NOT anything we can do about that today, I'm just noting that fact.

Good read here in the evil and Fake News NYT! :) - https://www.nytimes.com/...ytimes&smtyp=cur - going into detail again, how/why the U.S. is completely apart and alone on this issue.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [RZ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RZ wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?

Who cares what the numbers are? ONE is too many!

Sure it is. l doubt a single person would disagree with that. As is one car fatality, one plane fatality, one train fatality, one drug related death and on and on. The question is: what civil liberties are you willing to give up to prevent each one?
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I give you props for trying but jeez Fleck don't you know that things that work in other modern western democracies just don't work in the United States. When are you going to learn!

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
OK, so you don't have a problem!

The United States, as a whole, does not have a 'gun' problem.

Gun deaths, particularly murders (not just homicides), are confined to very small parts of the country, both geographically, and socioeconomically.

Even in Chicago, with a high number, and rate, of murder, it's (mostly) limited to a small geographic area.

Banning guns isn't going to stop gangland shootings.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Side note, why is Asian the only one that is supposed to be a proper noun?

Because black and white aren't continents?

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MTBSully wrote:
Side note, why is Asian the only one that is supposed to be a proper noun?

Cause Asia is a proper noun.
black is a colour.
Hispanic is capitalized (Hispaniola is a proper noun, additional side note, why did the Census decide that all Latin Americans should be named after an island in the Caribbean that contains two countries, half of which speaks French?)
white is a colour.
Caucasian is capitalized (the Caucasus is a proper noun, between the Black and Caspian Seas)
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
From your article:

“This suggests that the guns themselves cause the violence.“

That article is a great example of correlation versus causation. Maybe we have so many guns because we’re so violent and not the other way around. I’ll also add that, based on the numbers in that article, we have more non-violent, non-murdering gun owners than anyone else in the word.

And I’m not against gun control. But l am against over-simplified and emotional arguments. This is a far from simple problem and there are no simple solutions.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Because the US and Canada are similar? Seriously? This why I have a hard time taking your seriously.

FYI, and it was answered already, the number you posted is crap, has always been crap, and will continue to be crap. Take a peak at cities where strict gun laws are in place.

Do we need restrictions, yes. Again, there is no need for anyone to have access to a semi-automatic weapon. But the playing with numbers from the feel good crowd does nothing to further a rational discussion on the subject.

Fleck wrote:
What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?

The number of gun deaths (all gun deaths) in the U.S. is significantly more than other similar countries around the world - other western democratic countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...m-related_death_rate

U.S Rate per 100,000 = 10.54

Closest other Western Democratic Country - Finland = 3.25 (all other western democratic countries significantly less than that!)*

THIS is the number I look at. Pro Gun people tend to keep thin slicing these numbers until they get to a number that justify their position on guns.

So I'm guessing Americans are OK with that number?

If the U.S. was serious about reducing all the gun deaths in the U.S. each year, then they should look to those other countries that they are most comparable to - those other western democratic countries (Canada, Europe, Australia . . .). I know they won't and what I'm suggesting is bordering on impossible. I do understand it's a VERY complicated issue in the U.S.

* Don't look at any other countries - just the U.S. and those other western democratic countries I mentioned - that share similar values, and have similar societies and cultures.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Because the US and Canada are similar? Seriously? This why I have a hard time taking your seriously.

Where did I say that?

I know that many do like to compare, the U.S. and Canada and lump them in together, and that there are many similarities - but as someone who has family who are living in the U.S., as someone who travels to the U.S. frequently, and as someone who has a number of clients in the U.S., and interacts almost daily with Americans, I can tell you we are VERY different!

And by the way, what's wrong with being, "feel-good"? What's the alternative?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Because "feel-good" actions are just masturbation.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Spiridon Louis] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spiridon Louis wrote:
RZ wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?


Who cares what the numbers are? ONE is too many!


Sure it is. l doubt a single person would disagree with that. As is one car fatality, one plane fatality, one train fatality, one drug related death and on and on. The question is: what civil liberties are you willing to give up to prevent each one?

Accidents and the mass-murdering of our children are not the same thing.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scorpio516 wrote:
MTBSully wrote:
Side note, why is Asian the only one that is supposed to be a proper noun?


Cause Asia is a proper noun.
black is a colour.
Hispanic is capitalized (Hispaniola is a proper noun, additional side note, why did the Census decide that all Latin Americans should be named after an island in the Caribbean that contains two countries, half of which speaks French?)
white is a colour.
Caucasian is capitalized (the Caucasus is a proper noun, between the Black and Caspian Seas)

'Hispanic' doesn't come from 'Hispaniola'. They both come from 'Hispania', the Roman term for the Iberian peninsula.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Spiridon Louis] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?

The statistic isn't wrong, the media reporting is. It is the 18th shooting on school grounds in America this year. The article does a very accurate job of describing each incident.

I think a relevant? statistic might be how many school shootings with more than 2 people injured? I don't know.

So I will ask, what would be a meaningfull statistic to reflect the gun issue in schools?

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
The statistic isn't wrong, the media reporting is. It is the 18th shooting on school grounds in America this year.

Well no, it wasn't, based on the article. Several of those incidents listed involved firearms fired from outside of schools grounds in which the round entered the school grounds either deliberately or on accident. No amount of armed guards, metal detectors, or other school ground controls will have anything to do with those incidents. At least one incident was a negligent discharge of an armed police officer's weapon. Again, not anything that gun control on school campuses can do about that. Three of the incidents were described as being on college campuses,...not really in the same category as the rest of the narrative about "school" shootings.

Quote:
So I will ask, what would be a meaningfull statistic to reflect the gun issue in schools?

Well, to start with, define what qualifies as a "school" (High schools and lower? Anywhere that any sort of class is taught? Local adult continuing ed center?) and then at least limit the question to things that actually happen on school grounds, especially if the purpose of the discussion is to consider what can be done at schools to improve the issue.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [RZ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RZ wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
RZ wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?


Who cares what the numbers are? ONE is too many!


Sure it is. l doubt a single person would disagree with that. As is one car fatality, one plane fatality, one train fatality, one drug related death and on and on. The question is: what civil liberties are you willing to give up to prevent each one?

Accidents and the mass-murdering of our children are not the same thing.

Dead is dead man. Everything l mentioned is completely preventable.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Spiridon Louis] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?

That's nothing. The media is always pulling statistics from that mass shooting tracker that was set up by gun control nutters on Reddit. They get their 300 whatever mass shootings a year by counting things like two homies wounding each other while beefing at a crab boil.
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Amigo we heard from Dan E. (our dear leader) in the other thread that there ARE 18 school shootings just in this year.

The science is settled and the zeitgeist is against you

In fact the way Dan constructed his 'argument' you'd be a monster to disagree--think of the keke you monster.

just obey citizen--or move over there to that reeducation camp.

Steve
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [Virginia Plain] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Virginia Plain wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Virginia Plain wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?


So basically, a lot of incidents involving guns in schools but not 18 fatalities. And that's supposed to make us feel more secure and be ok w/the lack of gun control? It's still way too many fools handling guns that maybe shouldn't be.


It's not supposed to make you feel more secure or ok with lack of gun control. It's supposed to make you more critical of the news sources you ingest, to make sure you're getting facts instead of crap. Once you have factual information, you can come to a conclusion. Your conclusion might come down on the left or right of a particular issue, but you can't form a reasoned and valid conclusion if the information you're using isn't accurate.



I can appreciate that. But, I feel it's 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other in this case. And your point is just moot. There's still a ridiculous amount of lethal weapons on school grounds.

I know, they should really get around to making a law that makes it illegal to bring guns to school, then none of these problems would exist.

~Brad
Quote Reply
Re: Have u heard that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far this year [bradword] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
bradword wrote:
Virginia Plain wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Virginia Plain wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
l have. It isn’t.

https://www.dailywire.com/..._campaign=benshapiro


What it is is bad enough. Why lie to make it sound worse?


So basically, a lot of incidents involving guns in schools but not 18 fatalities. And that's supposed to make us feel more secure and be ok w/the lack of gun control? It's still way too many fools handling guns that maybe shouldn't be.


It's not supposed to make you feel more secure or ok with lack of gun control. It's supposed to make you more critical of the news sources you ingest, to make sure you're getting facts instead of crap. Once you have factual information, you can come to a conclusion. Your conclusion might come down on the left or right of a particular issue, but you can't form a reasoned and valid conclusion if the information you're using isn't accurate.



I can appreciate that. But, I feel it's 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other in this case. And your point is just moot. There's still a ridiculous amount of lethal weapons on school grounds.

I know, they should really get around to making a law that makes it illegal to bring guns to school, then none of these problems would exist.

Are you in favour of scrapping laws that target tax evasion, assault, drug use, theft, etc? None of those things are 100% preventable and still happen despite what the law says, so, why bother?

Long Chile was a silly place.
Quote Reply

Prev Next