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Is cycling really cleaning itself up ?
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http://www.velonews.com/...s-death-probe_456735

When the entire family of known dopers are allowed to still be involved and compete you really have to wonder how clean cycling really has become.

"There may be men that can beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it." Steve Prefontane
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [powerbarjunkie] [ In reply to ]
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powerbarjunkie wrote:
http://www.velonews.com/2018/02/news/italian-authorities-make-six-doping-related-arrests-rumsas-death-probe_456735

When the entire family of known dopers are allowed to still be involved and compete you really have to wonder how clean cycling really has become.

The dopers are always one step ahead it seems. Justin Gatlin is without a shadow of a doubt doping. He's quicker at 35 than when he was in his early 20s and doping. Yet he's passed every test thrown at home for the last 8 years..

I guess one way of determining if cycling is dirty is looking at the times and speeds, if they're on a par with or quicker than times recorded in the 1990s then we know the answer...
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [powerbarjunkie] [ In reply to ]
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One would be extremely naive to think that cycling is any cleaner. Or any sport at the elite level for that matter.

Pro level sports = some amount of doping.

Not everyone is doping but many are.

When I see the upcoming Olympic medal presentations I won't be thinking oh man these athletes are awesome. It's usually something along the lines of I wonder what PEDs they did/are doing and their schedule for starting stopping.

Label me a skeptic though.

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Last edited by: desert dude: Feb 8, 18 19:33
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [powerbarjunkie] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure there's any mechanism for banning the family members of sanctioned dopers? Maybe WADA should add a "lifetime family achievement" award.

But, yes, there are definitely still very active enclaves of doping within cycling. At all levels. You have this French/Italian drama. There's the masses of low-level Columbian pros caught last year. The Italian Vini Fantini team seems to be pretty dirty (including one announced today). Then of course there's the various dramas around Sky and other more careful teams pushing the boundaries of clean sport possibly beyond the gray area.

In U.S. amateur cycling there have been like 6-7 sanctions handed out in just the last couple of months.

And you have to assume that for every one caught there are 5-10 more who aren't.

So you might look at that, throw your hands up, and say the whole damn sport has given up on clean sport.

That said, as an amateur cyclist, there are also very strong cultural currents against doping and dopers that I experience. So there's hope too, at least I think.
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
And you have to assume that for every one caught there are 5-10 more who aren't.
Sadly, l think that you can safely assume that for every one caught there are 100 or more who aren't.

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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I think pro cycling is doped less. It's more micro-dosing and marginal gains crap, versus "I'd better sleep with my HRM monitor alarm set to wake me up so I dont die tonight."
And I'd like to think there's more riders who don't dope at all...
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I think that cycling is no different than any other sport. They just test more. How many triathlon age groupers got tested last year? I (a cyclist) got tested 5 times in 2017. I know a ton of master's racers who got tested at either a championship event (masters nationals and worlds), a special record event, and even at a local crit where they tested all the winners of the masters races.

There are dopers in cycling. Some of them are getting caught.

There are dopers in triathlon. Few of them are getting tested.

Does one sport have more dopers than the other? I kind of doubt it, but we'll never know until the testing numbers catch up with cycling.

From the USADA web site.
Cycling.
293 Athletes Selected
732 Total Tests

Triathlon.
113 Athletes Selected
195 Total Tests

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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
When I see the upcoming Olympic medal presentations I won't be thinking oh man these athletes are awesome. It's usually something along the lines of I wonder what PEDs they did/are doing and their schedule for starting stopping.

I was watching last night and the first thing I thought when I saw with this was "I wonder what he is on." His hair has got some sore of performance enhancement thing going on...



Matt
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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spookini wrote:
... "I'd better sleep with my HRM monitor alarm set to wake me up so I dont die tonight."...

Wow. Is that really a thing? That’s crazy.

Do you know of any anecdotes? Just curious.
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [michaer27] [ In reply to ]
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Read the Tyler Hamilton book. Really good insights on his experience with the systemic nature of doping in the sport.

Lance Armstrong's books were also a good read. However, we all now know that a fair bit of his story has been fictionalized to make for a more compelling read;).

One or both of these books talks about guys waking up in the middle of the night and jumping on the trainer to keep their blood from over-thickening.
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [michaer27] [ In reply to ]
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michaer27 wrote:
spookini wrote:
... "I'd better sleep with my HRM monitor alarm set to wake me up so I dont die tonight."...


Wow. Is that really a thing? That’s crazy.

Do you know of any anecdotes? Just curious.

It's a myth. The story has been passed around in various forms--always a pro relating what he heard about another pro--but it's bullshit. The best one is XXXX had to get up every night at two in the morning to ride his trainer.
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [michaer27] [ In reply to ]
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In the 90s before the 50% limit for hematocrit was put in place guys would use as much epo as they could. It was referred to as “blood to mud” and there were several Belgian cyclists who died in their sleep of heart attacks since their blood was too thick for their heart to pump. After a crash, Pantani was taken to hospital and his hematocrit was allegedly 64.
To prevent these heart attacks at night, riders would wear a hrm with an alarm. If their pulse got too low they would get out of bed and run in place a bid to get things moving again. The 50 limit was put in place to prevent this, since there was no episode test before 2000.


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Last edited by: Titanflexr: Feb 10, 18 8:12
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [powerbarjunkie] [ In reply to ]
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Short answer... no I don't think cycling is any cleaner now than it "was" nor will it ever be.
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Arch Stanton wrote:
michaer27 wrote:
spookini wrote:
... "I'd better sleep with my HRM monitor alarm set to wake me up so I dont die tonight."...


Wow. Is that really a thing? That’s crazy.

Do you know of any anecdotes? Just curious.


It's a myth. The story has been passed around in various forms--always a pro relating what he heard about another pro--but it's bullshit. The best one is XXXX had to get up every night at two in the morning to ride his trainer.

Except for the few dudes that actually died in their sleep...

So no, not a myth.
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [ In reply to ]
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Is triathlon really cleaning itself up?
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
One would be extremely naive to think that cycling is any cleaner. Or any sport at the elite level for that matter.

Pro level sports = some amount of doping.

Not everyone is doping but many are.

When I see the upcoming Olympic medal presentations I won't be thinking oh man these athletes are awesome. It's usually something along the lines of I wonder what PEDs they did/are doing and their schedule for starting stopping.

Label me a skeptic though.


So why do you watch? I really don't get the crowd that follows every development in doping news, then whines that they can't enjoy their sport because of all the dopers. If I did that, I'd simply stop training, competing, reading books on the sport, etc. I know plenty of people who bike, swim, and/or run pretty much every day and don't follow the top end of the sports at all. They couldn't tell you who failed a drug test or who won last year's Kona Ironman, or who won triathlon or cycling medals at the Rio Olympics. For that matter, I know a fair number of people who race seriously who don't read the magazines past the race calendar, or check the websites daily for news headlines. So it can be done. And, from my limited observation, they're a lot happier with endurance sports than the serious types who follow every news of every drug test.

I really don't get it. I don't condone doping, but I don't define athletes I've never met by whether or not they failed a drug test. I would assume there are quite a few "dopers" out there who are otherwise good people. I'm fairly sure I've had a few friends and training partners who at least thought about getting on something and maybe did it, but.... I dunno. I never asked, and generally don't look at people trying to spot signs. If they are on something, they didn't ask my opinion on it and it doesn't affect me or our relationships, so it really isn't any of my business.

I enjoy endurance sports. The TdF is probably my favorite sporting event (followed by Super Bowl, NCAA basketball tournament, and Boston Marathon). I read a lot, mostly biographies of endurance athletes. I collect race footage. I've met and/or interviewed a fair number of athletes. I love watching races and reading books. I really enjoy being at races big enough to have a pro field. I honestly don't remember if I've ever watched a race and thought to myself "Eh. Can't root for that guy. He may be on something." Actually, since I'm not naive, I assume at least a few of my favorite endurance pros were on something at some point. Shrug.

I'm just completely mystified by the multiple topics and hand-wringing over who is doing PED's and who isn't - particularly in the age-group ranks. I feel like a lot of people need to go lay in the grass, forget about triathlon for awhile, and watch for clouds shaped like fluffy bunnies.

Seriously, what does all of this hand-wringing get anyone? I'm not trolling. I genuinely would like for someone to explain to me what "amateur policing" does for them or the sport.

(For the record, I did read this thread. Not sure why. I generally skim over most drug talk. I didn't clink the link, so I dunno what family of dopers we're talking about.)
Last edited by: notadistancegod: Feb 10, 18 12:11
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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elf6c wrote:
Is triathlon really cleaning itself up?

Nope. It is worse than ever. Ditto for most sports.
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Re: Is cycling really cleaning itself up ? [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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 Not a myth. If translated (or if you know a bit of
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french) you can read Willy Voet’s book “massacre à la chaîne”. This is a first hand account on good old fashionned doping and cheating in the peloton that not only involved cyclists but also team directors and bus drivers. This is an awful culture that was born with the sport and unfortunately it will take many generations to disappear... Maybe.

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