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Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen
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A nice group from the Young Green Party is letting Trump know that climate change kills.

We been having crazy weather lately here with snowstorms that closed major resorts like Zermatt. It was to the extent that even rail was closed and folks were using „Lufttaxis“ - helicopters for getting out. Then I read in the paper on the way to work that this is the warmest January on record, then juxtaposed to almost the complete Swiss mountain range had level 5 avalanche conditions last Saturday.

I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change.



"Your Attitude Determines Your Altitude."
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [rob2681] [ In reply to ]
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"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum

Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum


Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.

I don't see your point. Even the scientists have varying opinions and disagreements regarding climate change, but all evidence does seem to point that human factors are at least partially responsible.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
slowguy wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum


Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.


I don't see your point. Even the scientists have varying opinions and disagreements regarding climate change, but all evidence does seem to point that human factors are at least partially responsible.

My point is that I'm not so sure that the conservatives here in the LR "deny climate change." I think they frequently question the science that has concluded that humans are responsible. Those two things are not the same, and tossing out the former is usually just an easy way to paint people as stupid, rather than addressing the actual point of disagreement.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum


Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.

I've read both. Outright denying and denying that it's man-made. So I think that's a fair statement.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum


Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.

Depends on where they are in the denial chain. There are those who still deny that change is occurring ("they changed the data!", "Look! It's really cold out!", etc.). Many have moved on beyond that to denying that humans are the cause. Some have even gone the next step and say we can't do anything about it, or it's not worth the (presumed) cost.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [rob2681] [ In reply to ]
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So a few people wear furry costumes, make a sign, and we elevate them to news. Seems reasonable.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [rob2681] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:

I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change.


It is for many folks a purely political calculation. It is pretty indefensible on a scientific basis, but elections are not won by scientists who vote. The base of both parties are perfectly willing to accept poor arguments brought forth by their partisan media of choice. At some point the argument may be destroyed by reality (a prediction that I made several years ago), but old talking points die very hard, and they still have a great deal of power. Folks are moving off of that talking point to the ones outlined by klehner. Of course, on the left, the level of CATASTROPHE represented by climate change can be just as fully at odds with scientific consensus.
Last edited by: oldandslow: Jan 25, 18 9:14
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change.


It is for many folks a purely political calculation. It is pretty indefensible on a scientific basis, but elections are not won by scientists who vote. The base of both parties are perfectly willing to accept poor arguments brought forth by their partisan media of choice. At some point the argument may be destroyed by reality (a prediction that I made several years ago), but old talking points die very hard, and they still have a great deal of power. Folks are moving off of that talking point to the ones outlined by klehner. Of course, on the left, the level of CATASTROPHE represented by climate change can be just as fully at odds with scientific consensus.

why is climate change even a left vs right thing? I can see big oil etc resisting it, and Al Gore's involvement polarizing some, but beyond that I just don't get all the Conservatives who seem so blinkered on this issue. v odd.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
slowguy wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum


Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.


I don't see your point. Even the scientists have varying opinions and disagreements regarding climate change, but all evidence does seem to point that human factors are at least partially responsible.

This discussion went from an emphatic: "I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

To: ..."seem"..."at least partially..." in one post.

That's conviction in a position.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change.


It is for many folks a purely political calculation. It is pretty indefensible on a scientific basis, but elections are not won by scientists who vote. The base of both parties are perfectly willing to accept poor arguments brought forth by their partisan media of choice. At some point the argument may be destroyed by reality (a prediction that I made several years ago), but old talking points die very hard, and they still have a great deal of power. Folks are moving off of that talking point to the ones outlined by klehner. Of course, on the left, the level of CATASTROPHE represented by climate change can be just as fully at odds with scientific consensus.


why is climate change even a left vs right thing? I can see big oil etc resisting it, and Al Gore's involvement polarizing some, but beyond that I just don't get all the Conservatives who seem so blinkered on this issue. v odd.

I would argue its a left/right thing because the recommended policy solutions to climate change appear to mostly left leaning in nature.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [rob2681] [ In reply to ]
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Wait, you are saying how can conservatives deny man made climate change by citing.... weather. Which when climate change skeptics do the same thing people point out weather and climate are different things.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [rob2681] [ In reply to ]
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Seeing as the sign is facing away from Airforce One, how is he supposed to read it?


.

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
slowguy wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum


Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.


I've read both. Outright denying and denying that it's man-made. So I think that's a fair statement.

What we see is a deny of science and the scientific method.
Many US conservatives equal an opinion with the scientific method. But them many of them believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old.

But for some reason, when they get cancer they are suddenly fans of science and the scientific method.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
Francois wrote:
slowguy wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
"I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change."

Unfortunately they do, even on this forum


Do they? Or do they question the science that attributes climate change to human factors?

Not defending that position, but it's helpful to be honest about the people you disagree with, with respect to what you disagree about.


I've read both. Outright denying and denying that it's man-made. So I think that's a fair statement.


What we see is a deny of science and the scientific method.
Many US conservatives equal an opinion with the scientific method. But them many of them believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old.

But for some reason, when they get cancer they are suddenly fans of science and the scientific method.

What the fuck are you talking about?
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [Dirty Bottles] [ In reply to ]
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Dirty Bottles wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change.


It is for many folks a purely political calculation. It is pretty indefensible on a scientific basis, but elections are not won by scientists who vote. The base of both parties are perfectly willing to accept poor arguments brought forth by their partisan media of choice. At some point the argument may be destroyed by reality (a prediction that I made several years ago), but old talking points die very hard, and they still have a great deal of power. Folks are moving off of that talking point to the ones outlined by klehner. Of course, on the left, the level of CATASTROPHE represented by climate change can be just as fully at odds with scientific consensus.


why is climate change even a left vs right thing? I can see big oil etc resisting it, and Al Gore's involvement polarizing some, but beyond that I just don't get all the Conservatives who seem so blinkered on this issue. v odd.


I would argue its a left/right thing because the recommended policy solutions to climate change appear to mostly left leaning in nature.

It's left/right because the left feel there is infite money available for the problem (Just let gov. take from the people), the right don't want to bankrupt individuals to fix the problem.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
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velocomp wrote:
Dirty Bottles wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change.


It is for many folks a purely political calculation. It is pretty indefensible on a scientific basis, but elections are not won by scientists who vote. The base of both parties are perfectly willing to accept poor arguments brought forth by their partisan media of choice. At some point the argument may be destroyed by reality (a prediction that I made several years ago), but old talking points die very hard, and they still have a great deal of power. Folks are moving off of that talking point to the ones outlined by klehner. Of course, on the left, the level of CATASTROPHE represented by climate change can be just as fully at odds with scientific consensus.


why is climate change even a left vs right thing? I can see big oil etc resisting it, and Al Gore's involvement polarizing some, but beyond that I just don't get all the Conservatives who seem so blinkered on this issue. v odd.


I would argue its a left/right thing because the recommended policy solutions to climate change appear to mostly left leaning in nature.

It's left/right because the left feel there is infite money available for the problem (Just let gov. take from the people), the right don't want to bankrupt individuals to fix the problem.

And so the right just puts their collective heads in the sand and denies the problem even exists.

There is plenty that both individuals and governments can do that will help to reduce emissions that do not involve increases in taxes or energy costs, but even those that do are not necessarily things we should shy away from. Those who oppose efforts to reduce emissions are taking a very myopic view of the future of the planet.

It just baffles me the number of right wing conservatives who refuse to look at the evidence and who seemingly think the whole thing is a hoax. Meanwhile we're merrily destroying the environment in a very short space of time.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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As folks have noted, solutions have generally been advocated by the left. The bigger question (and a central question at the core of American politics) is "why is almost exclusively in the US that denial has worked?" The left/right debate in the rest of world has largely accepted scientific consensus, and argued about policy implementation. Only in the US has denialism been so embraced by the grassroots that it has driven policy.
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [Dirty Bottles] [ In reply to ]
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Dirty Bottles wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

I can’t fathom how conservatives can deny climate change.


It is for many folks a purely political calculation. It is pretty indefensible on a scientific basis, but elections are not won by scientists who vote. The base of both parties are perfectly willing to accept poor arguments brought forth by their partisan media of choice. At some point the argument may be destroyed by reality (a prediction that I made several years ago), but old talking points die very hard, and they still have a great deal of power. Folks are moving off of that talking point to the ones outlined by klehner. Of course, on the left, the level of CATASTROPHE represented by climate change can be just as fully at odds with scientific consensus.


why is climate change even a left vs right thing? I can see big oil etc resisting it, and Al Gore's involvement polarizing some, but beyond that I just don't get all the Conservatives who seem so blinkered on this issue. v odd.


I would argue its a left/right thing because the recommended policy solutions to climate change appear to mostly left leaning in nature.

Wait, are you suggesting that neither "Fuck it" nor "Fake news!" are solutions...?
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
As folks have noted, solutions have generally been advocated by the left. The bigger question (and a central question at the core of American politics) is "why is almost exclusively in the US that denial has worked?" The left/right debate in the rest of world has largely accepted scientific consensus, and argued about policy implementation. Only in the US has denialism been so embraced by the grassroots that it has driven policy.

Because too many Americans listen to people like Rush Limbaugh:

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/...urricane-irma-panic/
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Re: Trump Greeting at ZĂĽrichflughafen [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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And I would largely agree that partisan media has effectively developed to the point that the country no longer exists, except out of inertia and economic necessity (I love marriage metaphors!)
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