Baloney. Absolute baloney. If you are in it, you are racing. Give forself credit for doing something so very, very few people have the courage to ever do: Get off the couch and toe the line. It takes huge balls to start a race that seems nearly impossible. If you are in it, you are a contender. Sometimes you will have bad performances, most of the time you will have an OK perfromance, sometimes you will have a great performance. Ultimately, it is that you entered and competed that is the largest accomplishment- whether you won or finished butt ass, dick in the dirt last. It doesn't matter. You had the Guts to Try. That's waht counts. That's what makes you a contender.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

This belongs in Khai's "quotes" thread, and it is burned in wood above my desk. These words validate my life:
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes up short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy casue; who at best, knows the triumph of high acheivement and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosvelt.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Race or survival have the same price. They have the same reason. They are defined by participation not by victory or defeat.

Joe Moya

Ah c'mon, Cullen. Just sign up for Leadville again, would ya? :)

I think that it depends solely on your attitude during the "event/race" and what is survival for one, may be racing for another.

I raced a marathon in 1998 with way too much downhill for my liking. At the 11k mark I was running as part of a group of 5 at the front of the race and was definitely "racing". By 35k my quads seized and I got muscle spasms every time I tried to run. I have never had a DNF in 25 years of racing so I walked/hobbled in the final 7k. That was "survival" in my mind and I finished up in 3:26. However, there were a large number (boy did I get to see a large number that day) flying by at 8:00 miles that were definitely "racing". I don't think that being in an event is enough to say you're racing. It is the attitude that you bring into the event and that can change throughout the day.

OK,OK.... Allan makes an excellent point and I do concede he is right. However, If this is the perspective you adapt then might I usggest there is a differentiation between events. Some races you are trying to produce results- the ones that are within your ability level to do well at. That is contingent on your ability level. Then there are the ones that are a stretch just to finish. Winning one and just finishing the other are both victories. I would have easily traded every single bicycle race I've ever won for a finish in the Raid Gauloises last year. We missed finishing after eight days by only about 48 hours. Most of the bikes races I won (all of them...) were minor local events. In the grand scheme of things, those victories mean very little or nothing. Had I finished The Raid, it would have changed my life. Finishing The Raid makes climbing Everest look like girl scout camp. Big difference.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

here's another quote for you, which could go in the other thread, but also applies here:

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."

John F. Kennedy - Address at Rice University on the Nation's Space Effort, September 12, 1962.

i say keep going for what's hard if it's what you want to do. i don't always go for extreme distance or difficulty, but i always find myself making it hard on myself (go faster, place better, etc on races i have no doubt i'm capable of finishing).

"if it was easy, everyone would do it." -not sure who said that first, but i think everyone else has said it since then.

later,

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mckenzie

in my perspective, im racing when i have a sense of control. I'm surviving when i've given up all hope of placing, of PRs, of what time i finish in, all of the goals are shot out the window and survival means finishing. Everytime i've raced wildflower its turned into a game of survival. To me, survival isnt fun. Thats one of the reasons i keep going back though, i dont go back cause it is hard, as JFK phrased, I go back cause i want to race there, i want to have a sense, a feeling of control.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

I think there are many variables involved with the concept of "racing" and therefore, too hard generalize. That said, everytime you are in an event you are in fact "racing" the clock to some extent. But the true nature of the event is how it is perceived by the individual. I'm just now trying to build back into shape after being out for some years. My bike is well, but I really haven't ran for 4 or 5 years, and being a "runner" I am really trying to get running fit again. I am running a 10 mile race next month (my first actual road race since '97) and have a 10 m PR in the 51's. I am hoping to run this race close to 60 (probably on the high side) and have conceded it as a matter of survival for myself at this point of time. While I will be "racing" the clock, I personally cannot consider this an actual race due to the psychological ramifications on a personal level. So for me, there is a distinct difference between racing and surviving, even though it could be a defense mechanism I've created to allow myself to start competing again :) Yeah, I'm somewhat twisted . . .