I think each person is different and what works for one person may not work for another. It also depends on what you're training for. For me, I do a lot of speed work, anywhere from fast mile repeats, to 12 mile runs at ~90% my half marathon pace. I probably averaged 50 mpw in 2017 with not a single mile being run slower than 7:00 pace. I'd say my average was ~6:35 pace. I had huge PR's in my races from the 5k in a sprint triathlon, all the way up to the marathon. However, my 70.3 run suffered because, although I have speed, I don't have the strength the long slow runs give you. I'm working on that for this next year, although I HATE LSD runs.

I did almost exclusively LSD runs from September through December and while my 5k isn't quite as good as my best, I bet I'm still in shape for a mid-high 16. I did the same as you for the last couple years, lots of speed, less long runs, and I'm surprised that I'm almost as fast off of long runs as I was from speed work. Didnt run quite as many miles as you did though. It'll be interesting to see how much faster adding in speed work this spring will make me. Hoping i also won't blow up during 70.3 races as well

20 days. 2/3 the way:

Day 1: 19:50
Day 2: 20:15 (3.37 mi 6min/mile)
Day 3: 18:48
Day 4: 19:21
Day 5: 18:36
Day 6: 19:06
Day 7: 18:44
Day 8: 19:18
Day 9: 19:01
Day 10: 19:42 (3.2mi)
Day 11: 19:18 - 5k road race
day 12: 19:33
day 13: 19:36
day 14: 18:31
day 15: 18:43
day 16: 19:43 (3.15mi)
day 17: 18:53
day 18: 18:36
day 19: 19:38 (3.2mi)
day 20: 19:42 (3.25mi)

surprised i gotten this far with the crazy flu out break down here. very strong strain

Did you intentionally take the 5k race easy on the 11th day? I know you said it was crowed and all, but unless it went up a 1000ft, seem like a really slow time, especially as compared to some of your workout 18+'s..

I like what you are doing, I did the same thing pretty much before I ran my PR marathon. Nothing over 6 minute pace average within a workout, so start at 6;45 and have to end with 5;30's to get under that average. No weeks over 45 miles and I PR'd by a lot in the marathon. Junk miles were just of no benefit to me whatsoever. At least that was my takeaway, as I do not think under any circumstances I could have run that fast in 8 weeks under any type of mileage program...

its never easy, I am learning to hold a steady pace and drop hammer at the end. thats pretty much what is happening when I go for the 18s.

day 21, 5k race:

Day 1: 19:50
Day 2: 20:15 (3.37 mi 6min/mile)
Day 3: 18:48
Day 4: 19:21
Day 5: 18:36
Day 6: 19:06
Day 7: 18:44
Day 8: 19:18
Day 9: 19:01
Day 10: 19:42 (3.2mi)
Day 11: 19:18 - 5k road race
day 12: 19:33
day 13: 19:36
day 14: 18:31
day 15: 18:43
day 16: 19:43 (3.15mi)
day 17: 18:53
day 18: 18:36
day 19: 19:38 (3.2mi)
day 20: 19:42 (3.25mi)
day 21: 19:01 - 5k road race

gah, its so much easier to gauge the right time to turn up kick on the treadmill, i dropped the hammer too late to sneak under 19

funny side story, me and wife bike to this race, where she did the half marathon. 5 miles from the race, she got a flat on the bike, and had to run with it to the start. she started 10 minutes late, and got 3rd woman overall with gun time, lol (1:39)

Are you sure your treadmill is calibrated? Seems like both of your races are slow compared to your treadmill runs.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

yes, the difference between the few seconds here and there is mental. knowing when to turn up the pace...

Day 1: 19:50
Day 2: 20:15 (3.37 mi 6min/mile)
Day 3: 18:48
Day 4: 19:21
Day 5: 18:36
Day 6: 19:06
Day 7: 18:44
Day 8: 19:18
Day 9: 19:01
Day 10: 19:42 (3.2mi)
Day 11: 19:18 - 5k road race
day 12: 19:33
day 13: 19:36
day 14: 18:31
day 15: 18:43
day 16: 19:43 (3.15mi)
day 17: 18:53
day 18: 18:36
day 19: 19:38 (3.2mi)
day 20: 19:42 (3.25mi)
day 21: 19:01 - 5k road race
day 22: 18:49

Well then you should really learn to pace, sit & kick is not the best way to a pr. Set the treadmill to 3:40/km tomorrow and try to hang on, if you feel okay last 400 increase. If you can do that I would try two days of 19 high, followed by a shot at sub 18.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

well that is what I did that time i did 18:31, remember all treadmills take a while to spool up to speed (23 seconds for mine)

Day 1: 19:50
Day 2: 20:15 (3.37 mi 6min/mile)
Day 3: 18:48
Day 4: 19:21
Day 5: 18:36
Day 6: 19:06
Day 7: 18:44
Day 8: 19:18
Day 9: 19:01
Day 10: 19:42 (3.2mi)
Day 11: 19:18 - 5k road race
day 12: 19:33
day 13: 19:36
day 14: 18:31
day 15: 18:43
day 16: 19:43 (3.15mi)
day 17: 18:53
day 18: 18:36
day 19: 19:38 (3.2mi)
day 20: 19:42 (3.25mi)
day 21: 19:01 - 5k road race
day 22: 18:49
day 23: 19:16
day 24: 18:33
day 25: 18:51
day 26: 18:44
day 27: 19:11
day 28: 19:40 ( treadmill turned off for 15s! read 19:58 on it.. close one !)

Project complete

Day 1: 19:50
Day 2: 20:15 (3.37 mi 6min/mile)
Day 3: 18:48
Day 4: 19:21
Day 5: 18:36
Day 6: 19:06
Day 7: 18:44
Day 8: 19:18
Day 9: 19:01
Day 10: 19:42 (3.2mi)
Day 11: 19:18 - 5k road race
day 12: 19:33
day 13: 19:36
day 14: 18:31
day 15: 18:43
day 16: 19:43 (3.15mi)
day 17: 18:53
day 18: 18:36
day 19: 19:38 (3.2mi)
day 20: 19:42 (3.25mi)
day 21: 19:01 - 5k road race
day 22: 18:49
day 23: 19:16
day 24: 18:33
day 25: 18:51
day 26: 18:44
day 27: 19:11
day 28: 19:40 ( treadmill turned off for 15s! read 19:58 on it.. close one !)
day 29: 18:47
day 30: 18:24

Since my 5k this saturday may rain, tried to shoot for PR today, ended up tying it. Music really helped, as it drowned out all the coughing and hacking i do. (im asthmatic) . Entire point of this effort was to relearn pacing, and fix my run form. phase 2 will be extending the distance beyond 5k at similar pace ... but every other day

How do you know the treadmill is accurate?

Truly you don't. I tested my watch on indoor run mode out doors for measured 400 outside, and it was similar

So did the 30 day 5k challenge improve/hurt/no effect your run program this year? Have any breath throughs? Have any injury/fatigue issues?

1 year later what's your take away?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It is hard to say. I also worked on other things, such as fixing chronic Achilles tendonitis issue, which I did using an insert. Then worked on fixing run form, which likely injured me (stress fracture).

3 months after ran 39:50 10k, 1:27 half. I did get mental burn out for sure... But I did tie my old 5k PR doing this program. So it's good if you have a specific goal

How did you work on run form that you think caused an stress fracture?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I was focusing on forward lean with good back kick, lots of pressure on forefoot. Likely under eating is the true cause. I'm tired of looking like a jogger when I 'run', race photos make me look like I am speed walking

2+ year update:

5+ years I was chasing sub 18 min 5k. Today nailed it on the track solo effort 17:47... Quite a mental challenge with no pacers. Finally added structure into my training:

.

1) 20-40 min tempo
2) 2-4 min treadmill repeats for total of 20 min at goal pace or better
3) long run 90+ min 2 min above goal pace

Also helped me to stop signing up for races a year in advance to get a good deal, where I forced myself to do workouts when I wasn't feeling ready just cause of fear of loss for a race I paid for. Rather I sign up Day of race now, and race in Mexico (cheap last minute too).

Ha , this thread is awesome!

I did exactly what you did when I got into running back in high school. After initial week of jogging around I did 1st 5 k in 18:20 something.

I then decided to just crank out 5k every day on a route through my neighbor hood that I marked out with moms car odometer.

No warm up ever, maybe some knee bends , then BAM ! Race pace. No cool down. (Later I would see other guys go on cool down runs after a race and I thought so pretentious , how do you have any energy left if you left it all in the race?)

Keep in mind I was 16 and somewhat able bodied , if not stubborn minded.

Over the 4-6 week ‘solo program’ (leading into actual cross country season) of maybe 5 days a week I saw steady improvement down to low 17:30’s. Would be bummed if slower then 18.

Once the season started I Managed a couple 16:50s and one at 16:20 in real cross country race setting with hills and whatnot. Hard to beat the motivation provided by competitors other then the voice in your head.

Damn now you got me thinking of taking up your challenge this next month. But maybe treat hard 5 k effort as long interval within marathon training...?

Go for it, and let us know your results

So here might be something interesting for people who want to improve running pace. It is from Joe Rogan Experience #1108 podcast with guest Peter Attia.

They talk about eccentric lifting, why Usain Bolt is so good at sprinting, about Meb Keflezighi - 2014 Boston marathon winner, running faster rather than slower to improve your pace, etc.

The whole conversation regarding legs, running, etc. starts here

Here
is conversation regarding fast running pace and continues with Meb winning Boston marathon.

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Don't stop when you're tired. Stop when you're done.

- D. Goggins

This afternoon I went out a marked out 5k out and back on nice flat section of bike trail.

This evening around 8:30pm I felt the itch to get out there ( after a beer and some ice cream about an hour earlier, which didn’t help).

This was my first flat 5k effort in about 11 years.

15 min warm up...

Mile 1: 5:36, nice tail wind to start

Mile 2: 6:04 , this doesn’t feel good.

Mile 3: 5:49 almost barfed last half mile. Head wind now

18:00 even for finish!

Thing is last year I did 3 half marathons with 10 mile splits within 30 seconds of 60 min each time. Then I got all wrapped up in Z2 training for long course bullshit this whole last year and I think I lost some speed....

Question: do I just have to break 20 min every day? Can I do 10k effort in 40 min within a run and take day off next day? Or maybe 3x 5k interval effort under 20 and take 2 days off ?

Can we call ourselves 5k Cowboy Club?!

I’m 34 days out from first flat road marathon and would like to break 3:00. Will I succeed?

...beep bop boop...

I am a bot

Calculating...

...odds of success at breaking 3 hours in 34 days...

81%

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"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal

That was good Rogan video , I had seen bits of it before. Interesting learning about concentric / eccentric stuff

5k everyday. The point is the physical or mental fatigue which builds faster daily. Also the 5k should be within 90s of your PR. So probably for you sub 19 daily. I'm not sure this is ideal before a marathon race as you will hit anaerobic efforts that will tax recovery