Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [spot] [ In reply to ]

Dec 9, 17 17:12

Post #76 of 99 (5091 views)

spot wrote:

Why on earth would this one event be the thing he lies about in the book?

Just spitballing here but the whole premise of his book is that he had to dope in order to compete in Europe. Rock Racing didn’t race in Europe so if he continued to dope while racing domestically, his entire justification for doping goes out the window. He’s no longer leveling the playing field, he’s just cheating.

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Z28Diddy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 9, 17 17:13

Post #77 of 99 (5091 views)

Do you honestly think her sentence would have been reduced had the amount found in her system not been consistent with the amount found in the supplements? Do you think that the people who catch drug cheats for a living would have considered that?

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]

Dec 9, 17 17:32

Post #78 of 99 (5083 views)

ajthomas wrote:

trail wrote:

Uncle Phil wrote:

Endurolytes? Hammer was sued for contamination in that product causing positive drug tests as well...

Yes, but the lawsuit was settled, so we don't know much.

But from what we do know, I'm highly skeptical of the athletes involved because the only samples of the supplement that tested positive were those supplied by Rebekah Keat's sister. Which is a horrible chain of custody. To my knowledge, no independently-acquired samples tested positive. And USADA tried.

You are completely wrong about that. 100%. A separate batch was tested by the Utah WADA lab. Literally what you just wrote is the exact opposite of the truth.

Do you have a reference? I believe you, it's just not what I remember from reading the CAS report (which I couldn't find right away)

Edit: I found Neben's CAS report. Nothing in there on the subject.

Keat's CAS report 2005/879 is strangely missing form the CAS database archive.

I've also found no reference in any news article about the CAS or other reports stating that a governing body was ever able to go out any independently acquire a Hammer product and have it test positive in a WADA-accredited lab. Labs were able to report positive results on the basis of samples provided by Keat (which I take with a grain of salt, (no pun)).

I'll happily and humbly correct myself and apply lashes if you can show me something in the CAS 879 report I can't find that shows otherwise. Or some other appropriately legitimate document.

Last edited by: trail: Dec 9, 17 19:13

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [trail] [ In reply to ]

Dec 9, 17 19:18

Post #79 of 99 (5060 views)

It is in her lawsuit petition. Subsequent to Barnett’s bottle being tested WADA tested an entire separate batch of neuolyte. In fact that is where he 150 / nanogram figure comes from. It is the basis for the lawsuit.

I don’t know how to provide a copy on my phone but simply look it up yourself. Dallas County court filings.

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]

Dec 9, 17 19:27

Post #80 of 99 (5058 views)

ajthomas wrote:

It is in her lawsuit petition. Subsequent to Barnett’s bottle being tested WADA tested an entire separate batch of neuolyte. In fact that is where he 150 / nanogram figure comes from. It is the basis for the lawsuit.

I don’t know how to provide a copy on my phone but simply look it up yourself. Dallas County court filings.

Dallas County? I thought the lawsuit was in CA court. Who is Barnett?

OH WAIT. I think talking about completely different cases?! I'm talking about Keat/Vine/Neben from back circa 2003. Are you talking about something different?

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [infinIT 1] [ In reply to ]

Dec 10, 17 13:00

Post #81 of 99 (4984 views)

infinIT 1 wrote:

This is why you have to know your supply chain all the way back to the original manufacturer. Unless there are boots on the ground inspecting the place they make some of this stuff, you cannot be assured of quality. Think of what happened to Cyto a few years back with arsenic and lead from contaminated protein (India). China...is an "issue". There was that issue in Australia with salt pills some years back. Our little tri world is pretty insulated, but when you venture into the body building world it should be a HUGE red flag for everyone. It's buyer beware.

I know everyone on the drink side, and this is the stuff that keeps us up at night. We all are ex-athletes and the though of causing an issue for anyone makes me sick to my stomach. What makes me sleep well is knowing that if there was a better ingredient available, we would use it. Sacrificing quality for price is NEVER a factor for us. We are probably 95% US Domestic produced ingredients. Everything we do is pre-tested before it hits my door. I know we are premium, but it's the very best quality with supply chain control from beginning to end. That makes me feel better.

this. I consult to the supplement industry and many of the smaller companies in "sports" in particular do not do their own manufacturing- contamination happens that way too. I consult to raw ingredient companies but there are VERY few supplements I trust because I know too much. You have to know where the raw ingredients come from if THEY are reputable and what kind of testing is done and then what happens to them. What kind of testing and verification does the company do? From dissolution studies and bioavailability to purity etc. Both inhouse and outside verification with again a REPUTABLE company

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Mike Plumb] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 9:51

Post #82 of 99 (4750 views)

Bumping this thread up as I see that the salt product I believe she was using is on the high risk category on the wada website now. Seems like she should probably win or did win, anyone know?

This one really chaps me because salt supplements is a product that a lot of people use, including myself almost daily. I have stuck with salt stick and will continue to use them, feel really good about the guy that runs that place and he does his utmost best to keep contamination out of the product. Sure most companies do, but every once in awhile money will trump ethics and it is the pro athlete caught up in what could be career ending..

I know the first go to excuse is always a tainted supplement, so we are numb to that excuse. But just like death penalty cases, sometimes those people are innocent, and when it is proven, then the information needs to be as strident in the affirmation as it was in the initial drubbing an athlete takes when their test comes up positive and the whole world knows..

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [monty] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 10:12

Post #83 of 99 (4700 views)

This exactly what Beth Gerdes McKenzie is claiming when she got popped for having ostarine in her system. She said that a supplement on the Ironman course was tainted with the illegal substance. Beth claims it was a well known salt supplement that many athletes use on a regular basis. Seems she is back to training and ready to race soon so I wonder what happened with her lawsuit/ban?

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 12:14

Post #84 of 99 (4444 views)

ClaudiaThompson wrote:

This exactly what Beth Gerdes McKenzie is claiming when she got popped for having ostarine in her system. She said that a supplement on the Ironman course was tainted with the illegal substance. Beth claims it was a well known salt supplement that many athletes use on a regular basis. Seems she is back to training and ready to race soon so I wonder what happened with her lawsuit/ban?

please don't speculate about a brand of salt tab, naming that brand here. put it on your own facebook page. not here. if you want to print the name of a brand here that is actually on a high risk list, okay. otherwise, please don't. thanks for understanding.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [ClaudiaThompson] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 12:28

Post #85 of 99 (4405 views)

This exactly what Beth Gerdes McKenzie is claiming when she got popped for having ostarine in her system.

Obviously we always want to get to the bottom of theses issues, and if this was truly completely inadvertent and accidental then the athlete will get hopefully exonerated.

The problem of course is in the so-called Court of Public Opinion. Over the years athletes, have claimed all manner of crazy outlandish stories about how a certain illegal compound got into their body - we've heard it all, "Tainted meat", "Kissed a prostitute who had cocaine on her lips", "My tooth-paste was spiked", "My massage therapist put it in his massage oil", "It must have been on the buttons of the hotel elevator" . . etc . . all the previous have been used as excuses as to how illegal WADA Drugs made it into an athletes system. These days, we really don't know who to believe.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [monty] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 13:06

Post #86 of 99 (4331 views)

Until just recently I was not aware of the NSF Certification for supplements:

https://www.thorne.com/sports-performance

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Dbeitel] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 13:24

Post #87 of 99 (4282 views)

NSF, GMP, Safe For Sport, Informed Choice are big certification and require a lot of work to gain and maintain.

In regards to Thorne, not a fan of their flavor profiles. Yes, they've been in the game awhile, but their flavoring and marketing is pretty atrocious.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Dbeitel] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 13:30

Post #88 of 99 (4266 views)

Dbeitel wrote:

Until just recently I was not aware of the NSF Certification for supplements:

https://www.thorne.com/sports-performance

It is a tough battle. I was talking to a supplement maker that reached out and asked whether they should consider the NSF testing. I of course said yes but the problem is that drives up the price of the product and we seem to be in a race to the bottom in the Amazon-effect. They would like to do it but just don't know if they can justify the cost - after all they are very careful about sourcing ingredients but without after-the-fact analysis and certification that doesn't mean much

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Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Dbeitel] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 13:39

Post #89 of 99 (4243 views)

Dbeitel wrote:

Until just recently I was not aware of the NSF Certification for supplements:

https://www.thorne.com/sports-performance

ok mate - that's two plugs for your sponsor in two posts. I think slowman takes a dim view of that kind of advertising here ...

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 13:45

Post #90 of 99 (4231 views)

iron_mike wrote:

Dbeitel wrote:

Until just recently I was not aware of the NSF Certification for supplements:

https://www.thorne.com/sports-performance

ok mate - that's two plugs for your sponsor in two posts. I think slowman takes a dim view of that kind of advertising here ...

I wonder how Slowman feels about starting whole new threads plugging sponsors?

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 13:53

Post #91 of 99 (4209 views)

Not to be too much of a Thorne-Bro, but the Vice President of the Sport Performance 'line' was a two time Olympian in Weight Lifting and ex - Director of Sports Performance at the USOC. He told us that he spent a decade of looking for a company that would support NSF for the USOC. Thorne was the only one to step up and dedicate a line of products unique to sport performance, they had been doing most of it for their other line of products already, the products that required a Dr to prescribe them.

You are correct, it does cost alot, and adds to the price of the product, but for us, we now have an alternative that we can decide if its worth the cost. I hope to set another hour record and when i piss in the cup, I know I'll be ok.

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Dbeitel] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 13:56

Post #92 of 99 (4194 views)

Dbeitel wrote:

You are correct, it does cost alot, and adds to the price of the product, but for us, we now have an alternative that we can decide if its worth the cost. I hope to set another hour record and when i piss in the cup, I know I'll be ok.

I get that and it is valuable to me too and hopefully my fellow pros feel the same way... but the masses, well not so much. Not that you have to sell to the masses to have a viable business, but yes it certainly limits your sales as the average user doesn't think NSF is a real benefit they are willing to pay for.

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Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 15:55

Post #93 of 99 (4049 views)

I will concur with Dan on this, and add a few things for clarification since this was a very broad statement.

I own BASE Performance, and since we are the ONLY Salts on the Ironman Courses in the US, I want to add that Beth's race was NOT in the US.

"She said that a supplement on the Ironman course was tainted with the illegal substance. Beth claims it was a well known salt supplement that many athletes use on a regular basis."

This product you are referring to is NOT BASE Performance or BASE Salts. Beth has never spoken to us. Nor has she ever taken our product.

Here is a direct link to Beth's blog where she discusses exactly what she is talking about in reference to Ironman Australia as well as SALT PILLS, which, to confirm, BASE does not have salt pills.

http://californiatraining.blogspot.de/2017/02/the-greatest-disappointment-of-my-life.html

Just wanted to clarify since many people are now reaching out to me concerning these statements.

Thanks

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [mattmiller] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 17:37

Post #94 of 99 (3965 views)

Wow. My apologies. I actually never even thought it was Base when she brought up the salt company in her article. I also never meant to imply that she had any connection to your company. I was wondering where Dan's comment came from since I mentioned nor implied zero company names in my comment. A quick Google search shows that there are multiple companies that are selling salt products for athletes. In the future I will refrain from broad statements so that people don't automatically assume one thing or another.

Last edited by: ClaudiaThompson: Apr 4, 18 17:39

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [ClaudiaThompson] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 17:56

Post #95 of 99 (3931 views)

ClaudiaThompson wrote:

Wow. My apologies. I actually never even thought it was Base when she brought up the salt company in her article. I also never meant to imply that she had any connection to your company. I was wondering where Dan's comment came from since I mentioned nor implied zero company names in my comment. A quick Google search shows that there are multiple companies that are selling salt products for athletes. In the future I will refrain from broad statements so that people don't automatically assume one thing or another.

I think a lot of people made an assumption based on your comments because Base I believe is the official "salt" sponsor of Ironman. Thus, most of us thought Beth shouldn't be getting salt on the Ironman course unless it was from Base. I know that is what I thought when I read your original post.

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Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 18:03

Post #96 of 99 (3923 views)

Thank you for clarifying that. I was seriously confused as to how I set people off when my comment wasn't meant to be provocative. I should have just said the name as a point of reference in regards to the topic at hand. I know for next time!

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [ClaudiaThompson] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 8:15

Post #97 of 99 (3601 views)

Wait. I haven't followed the case closely. Is this true that Gerdes claims it was an on course supplement supplied by Ironman that was responsible for her positive test? I don't recall hearing that claim before. Seems like that would be a huge story.

ClaudiaThompson wrote:

This exactly what Beth Gerdes McKenzie is claiming when she got popped for having ostarine in her system. She said that a supplement on the Ironman course was tainted with the illegal substance. Beth claims it was a well known salt supplement that many athletes use on a regular basis. Seems she is back to training and ready to race soon so I wonder what happened with her lawsuit/ban?

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [mattmiller] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 8:40

Post #98 of 99 (3563 views)

I am not usually in favor of editing a post but I think slowman ought to. Because I was momentarily shocked and pissed at your company for something you didn't do. And I seriously almost threw out a bunch of product!

Re: Ironman Winner Sues Supplement Maker [mattmiller] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 18 11:38

Post #99 of 99 (3346 views)

Hello mattmiller and All,

Are you same as Base Cartel that makes the great socks?

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

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