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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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runner66 wrote:
I'll try to keep this short. 50 year old male, formerly a strong runner
In other words, if I spent the next 9 months focusing almost exclusively on cycling, is it possible to jump to the top 3 in my age group on the bike (local races)? I am not delusional to think I could suddenly become a serious threat in the bigger races. .

You're not delusional at all. The fact that you were already a strong runner is evidence that you have the genetics to improve through training. The fact that you're already performing respectably on just 2 rides per week is additional evidence that you have excellent potential to improve your cycling a good deal with increased time on the bike. Nine months ought to be enough time to see a vast improvement but you would have potential to keep improving for the next several years even at your age if you kept up the workload.

Good luck have fun and stay safe,

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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If you're serious about big improvements, join a bike club. you get to learn all the training secrets which we we bikers guard.

runner66 wrote:
I'll try to keep this short. 50 year old male, formerly a strong runner who can't run much anymore due to age, legs not able to handle road running, etc. I recently raced Rev3 Quassy olympic on limited run training, 2-3 swims per week, and 2 rides per week. Out of 37 males in 50-54, I finished 7th overall. My places were around swim 15th, bike 9th and run 7th. I was able to run 8:10 pace off of minimal running. My bike was ok for me given the limited riding I put in. My split was around 1:23 (hilly course). I do not have a power meter but do have a trainer. I mainly train by RPE.

I am considering putting in a long bike focus to see how much I can improve on the bike, and also to limit my running to save my legs. I would continue to swim twice a week, but could devote 6-7 hours a week to cycling, basically 2-3 hours during the week, then a few longer rides on the weekends. Any idea how long it would take me to develop into a strong cyclist for my age group? I have the funds to afford a power meter, but am not great with technical gadgets, interpreting data, downloading data, etc.

In other words, if I spent the next 9 months focusing almost exclusively on cycling, is it possible to jump to the top 3 in my age group on the bike (local races)? I am not delusional to think I could suddenly become a serious threat in the bigger races. My plan is to stick with sprint and olympic racing only, since I can't handle the run mileage to race HIM or IM.

res, non verba
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Work works....for sure.

But, at the same time, are you looking at your fit, your bike, your wheels, your kit....?

You can't neglect the fitness side or the aero side of bike. They are both parts of a good bike split.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Took me six or seven years. Others may be quicker.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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It depends on what you mean by "strong" I suppose. If you're comfortable with the 8:10 running pace as reasonably strong, then I'd imagine that you'd be there on a bike pretty quick.

The problem that you're going to face is that your recovery time is going to be a helova lot longer now, then it was 25yrs ago when you were a youngster. As a result, increased fitness comes slower than the youngsters would imagine. You are going to find that recovery time, trying to ride 2-3x/wk and run maybe once per week, will be your limiting factor. 6-7hrs a week is no joke at your age, when you also have to budget recovery time for running. I'm 55. I've been cycling pretty seriously off and on since the early 80's and my recovery time is now so long that I would not be able to do what you describe.

A lot of older folks get stuck in a rut of junk miles Make sure you don't skip the up-tempo runs and rides. Carefully calibrate the intensity and duration of the runs/rides so that you don't lose too many days as recovery.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Do 5*5 all out. That is intervals of 5 minutes all out with some rest in between (for example 3 minutes).
Made me a lot faster.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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Join Trainer Road.com , Its not that difficult for a non tech savy guy. Ive been using it for about a year and a half. Its the single best and quite possibly the cheapest investment on speed you will make. Most folks make there biggest jump in improvment in there first year or so of training so make the best use of it.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Define "strong runner". If you were a 6 minute miler of average build that says one thing. But if you were a flyweight, that will mean something entirely else. Both of those have implications for cycling and could also lend to strengths on different types of terrain. But for your more direct question, with the right riding you'll get most of your gains in the first year, perhaps a little more the second year, and then on it's barely moving the bar (unfortunately, grrrrr).
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [RoYe] [ In reply to ]
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RoYe wrote:
If you're serious about big improvements, join a bike club. you get to learn all the training secrets which we we bikers guard.

Couldn't agree with this statement more. I'm 53, been doing tri's for 7 years. It wasn't until I started group riding last year that I got stronger on the bike. There's just something about riding in a pace line, pulling, chasing each other on climbs, etc that turns you into a stronger rider (as opposed to riding alone). It's human nature when you are in a pack to ride as strong and fast as possible. It's also fun as hell. You may get dropped at first, but stick with it. Also, you'll need a road bike if you don't have one already. Tri bikes / aero position (at least in my area) are not exactly welcome on group rides. You need your hands close to the brakes at all times for safety. Good luck!

"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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In my experience, which 99% of folks on ST disagree with me, if you do not have the DNA to start with, well, ..

50, you are young, just wait. And your comments about former strong runner is what I see all the time, and try to tell folks
do not use your legs up.

IMO, folks should be to just stay healthy and be able to train all year long. This is what I see the top folks being able to do.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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9 months of biking focus ought to get you very close. I have a similar quest as yours... I am the same age and had not ridden a bike in about 20 years. I got into tri about 18 months ago. No major bike focus, just ~4 rides/week, mostly on a trainer with TrainerRoad.

By the end of last year (9 moths of training), I was decent, but still had a lot of improvement. Four weeks ago in a popular local sprint with about 300 people, I put in the 6th fastest bike overall. And I would have been 4th fastest if I had not missed a turn. Next year, I want to turn in top 3 bikes overall in local races. I should be able to get there. I am currently about a 2:35 HIM bike time. I think my threshold is around 2:20 to 2:25, given my age and time to train. I plan to break 2:30 next year.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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runner66 wrote:
I am 5'11" and 173 lbs. Started running at age 37 and by age 40 was running 16:57 5k and 35:57 10k, at a weight of 157 lbs. Now I am heavier and not running as much. I have tried to keep up the running but just can't sustain it without getting injured. I never ran a mile all out, but probably could run a sub 5 minute at age 40 since my 5k pace was 5:27. Half marathon PR was 1:23:xx, so I am more of a fast twitch runner than slow twitch.

I struggle on the hills now with cycling because of the extra weight I am carrying, and also from lack of riding very much. My fastest HIM bike split was 2:44 at Timberman, but again that was back in 2011 when I was younger and lighter.

You're an excellent size to become a very good cyclist. Dropping a bit of weight will help for the hills but mainly you just need to "do the work". Your VDot back at age 40 was 60ish so that's of potential to make bike power off that sort of cardiovascular system. I see a bright future for you.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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runner66 wrote:
I am 5'11" and 173 lbs. Started running at age 37 and by age 40 was running 16:57 5k and 35:57 10k, at a weight of 157 lbs. Now I am heavier and not running as much. I have tried to keep up the running but just can't sustain it without getting injured. I never ran a mile all out, but probably could run a sub 5 minute at age 40 since my 5k pace was 5:27. Half marathon PR was 1:23:xx, so I am more of a fast twitch runner than slow twitch.

I struggle on the hills now with cycling because of the extra weight I am carrying, and also from lack of riding very much. My fastest HIM bike split was 2:44 at Timberman, but again that was back in 2011 when I was younger and lighter.
No, you are more of a slow twitch runner. Those run events are all about aerobic power. FYI, for a little perspective, my best 5k time would be about 3 minutes slower than you, and when I was racing at 150 lb (5'10"), I was sitting at 4 W/kg for my functional threshold. Your size will limit you on absolute power (200+ lb guys are beasts on the flats, even with lower power/weight ratios). You should be able to get above that 4 W/kg, and in doing so, even your HIM power will give you much, much better than a 2:44 split. Of course, some of that will improve with the proper setup as well.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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TITS.
(Time in the saddle.)

Find the hardest group rides you can find and ride them. Jump in races. Ride up.That is, ride with people faster than you are, people who can drop you. After a while, they won't be able to because you'll be stronger and you'll learn to follow wheels and anticipate surges and how to marshall your resources- which doesn't mean that you're not working.

Godspeed, you fossil.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Probably. 6-7 hours of riding is a lot more than I do.

Over a 6 year period on the bike, I went from 25% to 5% to 3% to1% (average overall bike split % in races between 100-600 people)

Ride hard and ride often - (most of mine is on the Computrainer)
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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While I'll readily agree that riding with others who are faster than you is extremely effective motivation I'd add one caveat. Riding with a group will quickly "program" you to hammer like mad up every hill and out of every corner. I've always found it easy to spot the folks who had done much of the riding in groups. While this hammering up hill and out of corners certainly can improve your strength and aerobic fitness, it's exactly what you won't want to do during a time trial where a much more even effort pays dividends. So if you start riding with a group, keep in the back of your mind " this will get me fit but I better not make a habit of this style of power application for my triathlon rides.

Have fun and stay safe,

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Last edited by: sciguy: Jul 2, 17 13:48
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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So, this thread is from 2017, it's been more than 9 months, any updates?

I did want to add, that I'm glad I didn't answer back in 2017.

I started cycling in 2016. Been training 10 hours a week (sometimes less), up till now, and only now am I getting into the point where I could finish a race with the peloton, and certainly have no chance of being top 3 finisher on a USA Cyling cat 4 road race.

I can only talk about so far, but 3 years, to be race ready, is the number for me. I do believe I am race ready at this point, but waiting to January for my next USAC race.

My journey was....had a lot of early gains the first year, then flattened out. I tried everything to keep progress going - hired a coach. Did tabatas. Got into HIIT training. Went to the gym.

The gym...that was the start of gaining more progress, but I didn't know it at first. I did it hard for 6 months and was getting some monster squats in...nah, I mean for me, it was great, but two plates I guess...but I could do 400lbs on the leg press machine. And - no improvement to sprint power at all. Which at the time, I thought my 700W sprints were killing me.

WRONG. What was killing me is I just wasn't strong enough. I didn't know it then, because the charts said I had Cat 4 power, even Cat 3 power@20 min. Chart's lied, power was my problem. Now the charts also indicated I have "untrained" power @15s, hence why I falsely worried about that. It's true, I won't being sprinting for the win at the end of the race, but first I gotta get to the end of the race.

After 6 months in the gym, which I thought was a bust, neverthelss I went into race season, and...lo and behold my power started creeping up. No luck at races, but I started going to racer rides, where they were going race pace...and I would get dropped on the first hill, then the second hill, then the third, as the season went on I went further. Then I got into Zwift, and starting entering race after race there. (with rest days between, of course).

Just kind of clawing my way, inch by inch to gains.....well my FTP has creeped up to 285W and I'm heavier rider, so this is probably still bad by some standards, but oh it's great to see progress again!!!! I'm racing in the B category on Zwift, and even gotten a trophy here and there.

I'm 50 next month.
Last edited by: rdupuy: Oct 24, 19 17:01
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [rdupuy] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on the progress.

I have been cycling for ~10 years now. The last 4 or 5 have been on a training plan where seasonally I might do as many as 8 - 10 hrs per week on the bike. Probably have averaged 4 - 5 hrs per week over the course of each year.

I have my FTP up to about 4 wats / kg. That puts me in Cat 3 range, but doubt I have the tactics to really get me there.

Not sure where your at on the Watts / kg spectrum. I would say for me the biggest gains have come after doing a heavy run or swim block and putting bike on maintenance mode. I then jump back in to my intervals and increase volume and time at intensity. I find while I struggle the first few weeks that, I reach new levels of strength / fitness. There is probably some physiology involved, but I think it is mostly mental. To get the gains on the bike I have to suffer hard on the trainer and log lots of time in the saddle on the road - for me it’s just not sustainable year-round.

For reference I’m 42.

You still have many years of gains ahead at 50, as it sounds like you are relatively new to structured training.

Best of luck!
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
By the end of last year (9 moths of training), I was decent, but still had a lot of improvement. Four weeks ago in a popular local sprint with about 300 people, I put in the 6th fastest bike overall. And I would have been 4th fastest if I had not missed a turn. Next year, I want to turn in top 3 bikes overall in local races. I should be able to get there. I am currently about a 2:35 HIM bike time. I think my threshold is around 2:20 to 2:25, given my age and time to train. I plan to break 2:30 next year.

Yeah, I have shown improvement over the past 9-12 months as well in cycling.

3:02 / Augusta 70.3 2018
3:12 / New Orleans 70.3 2018 (swim shortened, tropical storm)
2:34 / Haines City 70.3 2019
2:28 / Augusta 70.3 2019

I just jumped back into triathlon last year on a whim at Augusta without much training. My focus was on improving cycling. I hit 50mi @ 24.4mph on the track a couple weeks ago, so am conservatively aiming for a 2:20 or better for my next race (Augusta 2020).

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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So much of your improvement cycling can be body composition. I came from a bodybuilding background and my first 70.3 bike split was 2:30 and 12 months after hoping on a road bike for the first time in my life I had the fastest bike split of the day at IM Couer d'Alene at a touch under 5 hours. That said even if you don't have a ton of leg strength by focusing on big gear work and intervals you can make improvements faster than swimming or running.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [BGildenstern] [ In reply to ]
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A strong cyclist or a strong bike leg as part of tri/du? Big difference.

Running is a good start but cycling suffering is fundamentally different. You can’t run at 90% pace every day. Cycling you can do SS very frequently at a high % . You can do hiit or threshold every other day. You can do two cross races per day on the weekend.

Just try it and listen to the plans or coaching that is specific to the event you want to do and you’ll do fine.

I will say I’ve met some folks show up to the road race hammer fest and not care for the 1min to 5min all out till ya puke stuff. You CAN do it, just be mentally prepared to.

Coming from running don’t be afraid to utilize intensity more on the bike than running.
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Re: How long does it take to become a strong cyclist? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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tigermilk wrote:
runner66 wrote:
I am 5'11" and 173 lbs. Started running at age 37 and by age 40 was running 16:57 5k and 35:57 10k, at a weight of 157 lbs. Now I am heavier and not running as much. I have tried to keep up the running but just can't sustain it without getting injured. I never ran a mile all out, but probably could run a sub 5 minute at age 40 since my 5k pace was 5:27. Half marathon PR was 1:23:xx, so I am more of a fast twitch runner than slow twitch.

I struggle on the hills now with cycling because of the extra weight I am carrying, and also from lack of riding very much. My fastest HIM bike split was 2:44 at Timberman, but again that was back in 2011 when I was younger and lighter.

No, you are more of a slow twitch runner. Those run events are all about aerobic power. FYI, for a little perspective, my best 5k time would be about 3 minutes slower than you, and when I was racing at 150 lb (5'10"), I was sitting at 4 W/kg for my functional threshold. Your size will limit you on absolute power (200+ lb guys are beasts on the flats, even with lower power/weight ratios). You should be able to get above that 4 W/kg, and in doing so, even your HIM power will give you much, much better than a 2:44 split. Of course, some of that will improve with the proper setup as well.


Agree. I am 6'2 (6'1 3/4 but like to round up haha) and fluctuate 186-190. desk job made me fat and now trying to cut 20 lbs due to a hilly race coming up. Im 31. 13% body fat ish. genetically I have short powerful legs and a long lean shoulder swimmer torso build. Im Norweigen descent and think Blummenfelt build. I rarely get passed on the bike on a dead flat course in local sprint/oly with 6-7 hours a week training.

I can power up a hill like no ones business - but if the entire course is hilly - I get absolutely tanked and very very humbled.
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