Having voted in the past in some but not all the years I was a USAT member and not being one last year due to not racing a few things stand out.

1. Something about this election stinks worse than the gas I have right now. My dogs have abandoned me for another room and my eyes are watering up, to give you an idea.
2. I think it behooves me (and all members) to take, at the very least a casual interest in what goes on inside USAT and how things are done. After all it's your dime and mine that makes USAT USAT.
3. If you don't exercise your duty and right to vote you lose your voice in the matter, even if your voice lost the matter.
4. if we want USAT to focus/refocus on the racer as the/a valuable customer instead of the RD as the main customer than one needs to voice that to USAT, done by voting. we the people allow USAT to exist.
5. The majority of USAT members probably don't care the direction USAT takes. they do a few local races and the larger picture is not relevant to them. things such as insurance, safety, the rules, etc -you show up on race day and these things are taken care of and just happen and taken for granted. We've seen in the recent past this is not always true.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Desert Dude,

I agree with everything you wrote. I think the problem is that $30 is an immaterial amount for anyone to get involved or care about the innerworking at USAT.

I would bet that the main reason people become members of USAT and buy the annual membership is because,

They plan to do more than 3 USAT races,

They plan to do at least one race and live close to a Sports Basement to use the $25 gift certificate.

Or, in the past they were planning to fly to a race so wanted the United voucher. I believe you will see a big drop off in early memberships if USAT does not offer the United voucher.

Willy in Pacifica

---

.
Willy in Pacifica

You and desert dude have nailed the economics of the thing. In a very real sense, USAT is the troll under the bridge. If you want to race, you have to deal with the troll, so you find the least odious way of doing so. I do lots of road races, and I don't have to join any federations or associations. But I can't do a tri without a USAT license. So I joined.

As far as caring about the elections and all goes, sure I care. In the past year I have become consumed by all things triathlon. How can you train for an IM and have it otherwise?

The problem with what Jack is arguing is that for the average USAT member who does care, there isn't a lot of information out there regarding the candidates, the association, or how things work. I did 4 tris this year, and no one at any of them was talking about USAT issues, handing out flyers on USAT issues, etc. It was all about the weather, the course, and projections. It occurs to me that if Michellie Jones can come to a local sprint race for a photo op, then the guy/gal who wants to run the region could come to the biggest local season ender and set up a booth. You know, if he/she cared to actually talk to members. My point, if I had one, would be that it seems that USAT is suffering from a catastrophic systemic failure in that there is a schism between the board and the members.

The last time I was involved in a situation such as this(in retrospect, it was almost identical) I was living in Las Vegas, and the condo association board had gone mad(I later found that all people who want to be on said boards are megalomaniacal busybodies, but I digress.) I, and several others spent close to a month going door to door getting signatures to oust the board. We had to talk to each person individually, and even when it concerned monthly fees and the maintenance of their homes, numerous people were apathetic. Some people didn't want to get involved, some just didn't care. When we got the required number of signatures, we showed up at the board meeting, and the board refused to hear us, tried to kick us out, and when we wouldn't leave, they adjourned. It took quite a bit of time to get everything back together once we finally ousted them. In the void of checks and balances, almost every contract the prior board signed was illegal or egregious. In the 6 months that I served as Vice President of the board, I learned that it is much easier to run things poorly than it is to run them correctly. Since I didn't have the time to do it right, I resigned from the board.

I don't see how you can fix the problem without the active involvement of many more people than you currently have involved, and I don't see how you can get more people involved without a way to motivate them.

---

------------------------------------------------------------

>>I know that he had a person, and appeared himself at a couple of our tri club meetings in San Diego, collecting ballots. I do know that I did not vote in this manner, and instead mailed mine in, so maybe my name doesn't appear on Jim's spreadsheet if I did or didn't vote for him. Does this not bother anyone else????<<

Hell yes! I was in line for registration at Folsom and Jim was there handing out ballots, helping people fill them out, telling people who to vote for in the at-large position and then taking their ballots. And yes, I know this to be true since I did witness it when he instructed my clubmate and took his ballot. I mailed my own in.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

>>I do lots of road races, and I don't have to join any federations or associations. But I can't do a tri without a USAT license.<<

What kind of road races? Running? If so, ok. Cycling? If so, don't you have to have a UCSF license? Mandatory here for any of the bike races.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I think this pretty much sums up the election and most voter apathy.

Would I have even known there was an election without reading Slowtwitch? No

Would I have know who the candidates were in my region (East) without reading Slowtwitch? No

Do I have any idea what the candidate platforms were for my region? No

Could I pick out my regional rep from a lineup of two people? I'd have a 50-50 chance.

Granted, I just moved back from the states from living overseas for four years and only renewed my USAT membership in August. But I don't recall seeing an issue of Triathlon Times with a ballot -- but maybe I joined too late in the year. I do a few (2-4) races each year and probably represent the "average" triathlete. I never remember seeing or hearing anyone at any races discuss the election . . . even the RD who blabs on and on over the PA system before, during, and after the race.

Why doesn't USAT pick 6 (controversial?) topics, interview each candidate on them, and print their responses in their Triathlon Times newsletter? I realize this isn't in the interests of the incumbents, but that would interest me a lot more than what they currently put in their newsletter. It would also give people like me an idea what the different candidates stand for to assist me in making my vote. Other than that, and Slowtwitch, where can I go to learn about the candidates?

Well, there I've done it. Successfully blown 4 years of lurking. I guess Dan's posts on this topic are working, if it got me to post. Thanks for listening, David in Florida

"Why doesn't USAT pick 6 (controversial?) topics, interview each candidate on them, and print their responses in their Triathlon Times newsletter?"

i agree with you. but it might not materially change things. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. anyway, we did exactly this on slowtwitch prior to the 01 election:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/opinion/election01.html

(you can be pretty sure that if it's something the federation ought to be doing and isn't, i've already tried it at sometime or other).

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"Having an educated 10% vote is better than having 100% turnout with 90% just checking any box for any candidate."

i think the disagreeable scenario you paint is preferable to what we've had in the last election, where a group of people decide to make a set of rules allowing the harvesting of votes from that 90% of cattle you speak of.

the federation has a problem. it needs to sell its elections. if turnout is what is desired, selling the election is the answer. the majority on the current board feels like its abhorrent tactics are justified because, in the words of one of these board members, "all the candidates have the capability to do what we did." do you think they want to raise these election practices out of the gutter? as long as the other candidates refust to wade in, they have the gutter to themselves.

yes, you're right, we ALL need to do better in selling this election. triathlete magazine and inside triathlon do what, exactly, in alerting people to this election? if i was USAT i'd be all over these magazines to cover this election in the months leading up to it. i'd use my ad buys as leverage if need be.

here's another idea: devote one ENTIRE triathlon times to the election, instead of burying the ballot inside one edition otherwise devoted to other unreadable stuff.

there are plenty of ways to make this election vibrant and well-attended without debasing ourselves to our current dismal level. why haven't these methods described above been adopted? because it's in the best interest of those currently in power to keep the electorate uninformed and blasé. that's sad. and it ought to make you mad, willy. instead they've succeeded in getting you to buy into the apathy argument they're selling you.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Willy,

Okay it's not a failure on USAT's part, it's a failure on the memberships part. Happy now?? Afterall as I went on to say don't you think if you are going to take from the sport a bit of giveback (in this case knowing the issues & voting) is not too much to ask. The failure then is even more tragic. Now we have the 90 percent abrogating their responsibilities to the remaining 10 percent and they now control a whole Federation. When the power is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands is tends to become absolute. Absolute power corrupts, like this last election process. Oh and Willy, that's why there is a problem, some folks that ran for office actually intimidated some of these 90 percenters into simply voting for them because those running were well aware of this lack of awareness. So no matter how you cut it, the situation still begs the same solution: personal awareness, involvement and action.

Jack Weiss

Apologize if this has been answered or discussed...I'll also be the first to admit I don't know the election process or bylaws

Dan, is there any reason you have'nt run for a USAT position? You obviously have a passion for the sport, experience, and something I appreciate in politics...an uncanny knack to speak the truth and irk the status quo :)

Beyond Dan, it seems like there would be several qualified candidates on this forum, not to mention a forum for a voting base, publicity, feedback, etc...

"Dan, is there any reason you have'nt run for a USAT position?"

one day i certainly will. but i wouldn't be able to devote the time to it that it would currently require. i don't have any HUGE problem with the current board, except that as any group of politicians they're a little bit preoccupied with running for the board as opposed to being on the board.

and, since i just become head cross country coach for my local high school's boys team (pending the pedophilia check) i've refilled my plate.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Sorry, not trying to change the topic of the orgianal thread, but...

'as any group of politicians they're a little bit preoccupied with running for the board as opposed to being on the board'

Not a "HUGE problem"?

IMHO, this seems to be the root of the problem and probably the biggest complaint about politicians in general...too concerned about being a politician than with the issues... and addressing the issues...this makes for a poor politician...

How can you be a good politician/board member if you're not focused on you the responsiblities of the position and your constituents? Obviously this doesn't address the issues at hand, just debating if we need a more radical changing of the guard in order to step forward?

Good luck with the CC team...maybe grow a few into triathletes in the process :)

"Good luck with the CC team...maybe grow a few into triathletes in the process"

i'm very jazzed about this. been wanting to do it for a long time. there are now just barely enough kids to field one men's and one women's team, that is, fewer than 20 total kids in the program, boys and girls. they were last in their league in both races. this upcoming fall would be my first season as coach, i haven't yet met with the old coach, or any of the kids.

the school has an enrollment of 3200 and is 70% minority. i've got all kinds of things i'd like to achieve here, obviously kicking butt and taking names, but also increasing college enrollment, civic responsibility, blah blah. it's the best thing i'll do this year.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Aweseme...I'd love to see a regular slowtwith article on your experiences/learnings...I sure it will be a fun and a learning experience

I serve as a board member and a volunteer for a local boys and girls club in an urban Chicago neighborhood...%95 of our youth come from minority, low income, single homes yet their spirits and drive are stronger than any...The club definitely helps keep many of kids on a positive path that wouldn't be possible without the staff of coaches......I've been amazed at the impact the staff can have on the youth...

I've thought about putting together a running club with interested kids, but don't think I could dedicate the time it would require to make the impact I would want...In time...

Best of luck...keep us posted

"Aweseme...I'd love to see a regular slowtwith article on your experiences/learnings...I sure it will be a fun and a learning experience"

are you kidding me? that's central to my winning strategy. i shall be the king of bribes. i'm putting the touch on timex, polar, the usual footwear suspects, you name it. trips to mammoth. trips to tahoe. training camps in xantusia. i'll be santa f'ing claus, which is a big deal when most of these kids are used to basic sustenance living, and gangs are the rule, not the exception.

as consideration, timex, saucony, or whomever, gets top billing on my ongoing series.

whatever the CIF (the caifornia intersomething federation) will allow , that's what i'll do.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I figured as such that you'd tie in regular articles, sponsor adverts, and generate free chotzsky for the kids along the way...lucky them...

It'll be interesting to see how the santa claus strategy works...In my experience, the urban kids are too smart (16 in age, 30 in street smarts)...Don't get me wrong, they'll willingly take the free stuff (and sometimes come to expect it...but that's just kids being kids)...However, it's not as much of a motivator as I would have anticipated...what keeps the kids coming back is more the structure and consistency...they know what they get when they walk in the door, they know the rules, it's their choice to be there...rather than the free stuff....

May not be the same for a running team where competion is a natural part of participation...Good luck with those CIF rules...

Have fun...

p.s. Nike (as I'm sure do others, Nike just has deeper pockets than most) have several programs and staff that support programs exactly along your lines (we work with several of em..more basketball and football than running).

"p.s. Nike (as I'm sure do others, Nike just has deeper pockets than most) have several programs and staff that support programs exactly along your lines (we work with several of em..more basketball and football than running)."

i believe saucony's sister brand spot-bilt (famous sponsored spot-bilt athlete: oj simpson) had a $20 million business selling football shoes to colleges. then nike came along and decided that it would be a useful $20 million ad campaign to GIVE away $20 million in shoes to colleges. spot-bilt went from $20 million to $2 million immediately, selling shoes only to the football officials (that's how i remember the story, anyway).

but i don't know that anything like this exists for HS XC. frankly, i don't want an unfair advantage. i want EVERY HS to be able to offer really good, competitive hard-goods programs. to me, the thing isn't to win state every year (tho that's also the thing) but to introduce kids to an activity that will stay with them through adulthood and into old age. and to get them a structure, a work ethic, and introduce them to what success feels like.

i am CERTAIN that you are right, that i'll have to adjust my strategy and that much of what i initially plan won't work. what's that they say, "a battle plan doesn't survive the first day of combat?" but i'm fast on my feet, and i'm unaccustomed to losing, so if i only achieve 80% of my goals i'll still have the best program around.

my goal is to have 250 kids out for the program. no school in california has that, to my knowledge (i have a friend who coaches at corona del mar HS in orange county, he may perhaps). but i figure if i fall far short of that, i'll still have a rockin' team and we'll have a lot of rich times.

btw, some readers who're longtime triathletes may remember george and barbara wright, both hot spit AGers in the 80s and early 90s. george (white george) coaches XC at long beach poly HS (george is conspicuously white there) and his teams are perennial powerhouses. so i have two athletic friends, one kicks ass coaching at an exceptionally white school (bill sumner at CDM HS), the other at an exceptionally minority-inhabited school. a really good coach of any color can make it happen anyway. cool.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"Is mud wrestling a sport?"

My favorite. At least in my fantasies.

"It's the apathy you just expressed and many like you express that is contibuting to this problem. "

Apathy? dude what the hell are talking about? I made a quip about the lingo and you wanna make a judgement call on what I am doing for the sport?

First off I'm not a member of any federation or what ever right because

1. Gotta find the money first

and

2. I am learning about how the whole thing works. I am very careful who I give my time and money too.

Half of the race t-shirts for running, cycling and triathlon I have are from Volunteering. I am that annoying course timer who want stop jumping up and down and screaming between time calls. I have done and will do plenty for the sport. I don't think being intherald by a pissing match would make me better triathlete.

---

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"Okay it's not a failure on USAT's part, it's a failure on the memberships part."

Ya know what? If it where goverment elections then I would agree with you, but it's not. What this is is a game. A sport. A way to spend some free time and income.

90% if the people don't vote because they have families, dogs, jobs and sadle sores to worry about. Pay the fee and race that's all they want to do.

It is the fedration's job to make me want to vote. It is thier job to get me the information in a format that is short and to the point. You complain of apathy but you know what dude apathy frees up time.

From these posts I'm getting the idea that board members are more about there little chairs at the table then doing anything.

I am a future voter. Blow sunshine up my ass and make me think the board can do more then sit around a get pissed off about words like sneaky.

---

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Dan:

Just got back from some family matters. At first I read this and your initial post and thought that maybe you were making good on your offer to apologize, but after re-reading it and the comments that followed, I see instead that you picked out one word "sneaky" as the one thing that either I find offensive or for which you would (sarcasticly) be willing to apologize. The end result, of course, being people being more upset that someone would take offense at the use of the word sneaky. Why did you choose that one word only - what about the other items that I listed in response to your question (as unedited by you below):

"How do you try to hide the analysis and correctness of the USAT's action through attacks of me and Jim? Well, referring to Jim as sneaky, engaging in questionable election tactics (although approved by the board and as utilized by every other candidate including those that you supported), about 8 or so posts that denounce me as biased (while I did support Jim, you have yet to show how that infected my legal analysis); that state that I engaged in the handling of other people's ballots (I did not), the state that assisted people sued by the USAT (I did not), that stated that I and others at my club took up a PR campaign for some who sued the USAT (I and we did not), that most insulting and f'n degrading attack that likens my alleged (and erroneous) involvement in an election to one of the saddest and most dispectable acts in human history (dropping poison pellets into a mass shower). Gee, I don't know - guess I'm just thin skinned. "

So despite various completely wrong allegations, attacks on my credibility, stating that my involvement in the USAT was one of less than honorable involvement, and one that really floored me in which you compared my involvement in the election (or what you thought was my involvement - that turned out to be wrong also) to the attrocities against the Jews at Auschwitz via dropping of Zyklon B tablets. No need to apologize for any of those?

Hell, call it sneaky if you want Dan - you obviously believe it (despite, again, it being the procedure adopted by the USAT and applicable to all candidates).

You operate under a strange definition of apology.

Also, in another part of your post you said: "i then wrote a post, saying, hey, alan, isn't this you who wrote this opinion? and isn't it appropriate that the board know your connection to girand before they consider your opinion as from a disinterested legal party?"

Wrong, you asked if I wrote an opinion that differed from Mr. Grinder's and, if so, would I mind publishing it as a comparison to the earlier one you published by Mr. Grinder. I obliged - my mistake. The whole issue of "disinterested" didn't come in until around the time you called me a Nazi.

And if you want to know, I do not consider myself disinterested. I am very interested in the sport of triathlon, how our governing body runs, how our elected officials represent (or fail to represent) the members, legal opinions upon which the USAT will base decisions effecting everyone of us, especially where I believe such opinions are incorrect, and the negative reaction from certain USAT board members when members such as myself attempt to become inolved in OUR sport's governance. No, I am not disinterested.

Alan

"I see instead that you picked out one word "sneaky" as the one thing that either I find offensive or for which you would (sarcasticly) be willing to apologize."

i took each offensive topic one by one. look back a page or two, they're off the front page by now. you'll find it all there. feel free to reply to each of them as you like, and i'll let you have the last word.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

OK Dan - I'll bite.

Where are the other "apologies"? I see where you once do apologize for stating that I collected ballots (although you couldn't let that settle - you then went on as to why I must demand a retraction due to what you describe as the distasteful nature of Jim Girand's process being connected to me). The apologies for calling my involvement less than honorable is in what thread? The apology for the gassing of the Jews is in what thread?

"Where are the other "apologies"?'

you'll have to go back several pages. go back and look at all the posts i've started over the past 6 or 7 or 8 pages. most of them are your apologies. most (tho not all) have (SOS) for "sins of slowman" after them, so that those who don't want to read about all my sins may avoid those posts.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan:

I have read your SOS posts and I do not see any such apologies. But you claim that you have apologized for such statements and inappropriate references, so I will take your word for it.

Alan