Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
yeah and seeing the bikes with bent chain rings is horrible. It shakes me more than seeing bodies knowing what happened when looking at the bikes.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriTamp wrote:
I can't even count the number of times while riding on a low traffic backcountry road that motorists have passed far too closely to me giving me no room for error. Often times there are no other cars and they could easily swing far out wide. Other times, they can't wait literally 5-10 seconds for the car coming in the opposite direction get past.
My theory is that there are two factors. The commonly discussed one is 'how dare they impede me, I must get to Dunkin' Donuts, etc.' But as another poster pointed out, that seems not to apply to a farm tractor or other slow-moving motorized vehicle. I think there is a lot of self-loathing going on out there, we're on average a good bit thinner and fitter-looking. No solution to that that I can think of.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Sasquatch] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sasquatch wrote:
That said, I am of the opinion the most effective safety device a rider can employ is a bright, rapidly flashing red light. They are cheap and get drivers' attention. The flashing may even attract the attention of the drunks and the distracted. Please get one and use it -every ride, dawn, dusk, day and night.


If you watch the video that has been posted of the crime scene, at the 6 second mark the red flashing light on the bike at the police officer's feet is still flashing http://www.freep.com/...2016/06/09/85591460/ . I'm not saying I disagree with the light, and this crime has already caused me to light up my bikes. I never thought I would drop 500 bills on lights and radar for my bike, but there it is. It's either that or my family is gonna ground me to the trainer.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families. I see the Detroit Free Press is reporting our do-nothing legislature may have found enough energy to try and pass tougher cyclist-buzzing laws. I sure hope that happens. At least something positive would come out of this tragedy.

Sorry Sasquatch, I didn't read all the earlier posts so I missed someone had already pointed out the active flashers on the bike.
Last edited by: Kentcart: Jun 10, 16 9:24
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ergopower wrote:
TriTamp wrote:
I can't even count the number of times while riding on a low traffic backcountry road that motorists have passed far too closely to me giving me no room for error. Often times there are no other cars and they could easily swing far out wide. Other times, they can't wait literally 5-10 seconds for the car coming in the opposite direction get past.

My theory is that there are two factors. The commonly discussed one is 'how dare they impede me, I must get to Dunkin' Donuts, etc.' But as another poster pointed out, that seems not to apply to a farm tractor or other slow-moving motorized vehicle. I think there is a lot of self-loathing going on out there, we're on average a good bit thinner and fitter-looking. No solution to that that I can think of.

I think in a lot of cases this is highly accurate.


Pete Githens
Reading, PA
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrewmc wrote:
I am pretty certain that there is evidenced research that the "i didn't see them" is actually true

It applies to motorbikes.

Car at t-junction, driver sweara they saw nothing, pulls out and is broadsided

And its not people distracted, or "not paying attention" (they are paying attention but they are looking for the wrong things)

I think the research has demonstrated that drivers are looking for cars / vans / lorries and this is to do with the frequency with which they encounter them

So they make quick decisions, miss the biker and the rest is history

I appreciate that this situation is different and that there are many instances of rage against cyclists but there are incidents where people simply make a mistake, they dont see something they are not looking for and it goes wrong. I'm not sure what the appropriate penalty is but the defense that they did not see them is legitimate whether we wish to accept abd acknowledge it or not

This is absolutely true, there are times when very obvious objects can almost be completely invisible to someone. I am a psychologist and I remember going through this in school, although it was a long time ago so I don't remember the specifics. The premise is that human beings are cognitive misers, meaning our brains will use as little energy as possible for a given task. Our brains will take a situation and make assumptions based on experience, so anything that is different or novel to a situation will not be encoded information. It plays into the phenomena of driving home from work, pulling into the driveway and having no idea how you got there. We sort of go on autopilot. So, motorcycles and bikes could be difficult for drivers to see because they are not as common and therefore not within expectations for our blueprint of what to expect and be aware of. If memory serves, there was a psychology show that Philip Zimbardo (a psychologist) used to do that showed this point where they had a bunch of stuff going on and he'd tell you beforehand to try to pick out something specific like count how many times something occurred. During that, someone would walk out in a bunny or gorilla costume or something like that, dance around and walk off. Most people never saw the bunny, but when he made reference to it, it's crazy that someone could miss it because it was right in the middle of the tv screen. I believe part of the reason why drivers become so infuriated with cyclists is they aren't expecting them to be there, and they can feel stupid because they are difficult for them to spot. So, I am in the camp that people have mentioned that we need more driver education to make them aware and thinking about cyclists, as well as making yourself as visible as possible with lights, etc. Education will work because once most drivers are aware that cyclists are out there, they will be easier to spot. I believe cyclists and drivers can coexist and I ride the road as much as I can. I've seen it in our area where education has actually been effective and the area has become safer for cycling. The idea of a cyclist being almost invisible would sound stupid to us because most of us are cyclists and therefore are looking for them, but it's true. This situation is obviously different and this guy is just an asshole who was impaired, so who knows if he could see anything.
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Mr. October] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mr. October wrote:
TriTamp wrote:
. I think there is a lot of self-loathing going on out there, we're on average a good bit thinner and fitter-looking. No solution to that that I can think of.


I think in a lot of cases this is highly accurate.


I think the opposite. Too many people feel too self important to consider the greater good. Just 1 example is people tail gaiting the car ahead of them through a left turn signal that's already gone out. Said jackass now sits in the intersection b/c there never was enough clearance to complete the turn in the first place. Said jackass is now blocking traffic from every other direction, all b/c it was more important to them that they make THIS light than wait the 4 min until the next light cycle. If any drivers ever put others ahead of themselves, and as another post above said - LOOK for what might be coming instead of glance to verify a car isn't - there'd be fewer auto issues of all kinds.

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
Last edited by: Tsunami: Jun 11, 16 6:49
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Sasquatch] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sasquatch wrote:
I am an attorney who has represented many cyclist who have been hit by irresponsible drivers. In almost all cases the insurance company defense raises the issue of perspicuity and perception reaction time. Usually, I think the defense is a load of horse crap. That said, I am of the opinion the most effective safety device a rider can employ is a bright, rapidly flashing red light. They are cheap and get drivers' attention. The flashing may even attract the attention of the drunks and the distracted. Please get one and use it -every ride, dawn, dusk, day and night.

With drunks, these can increase your chances of getting hit. When drunk, you get "target fixation." While staring at the target-flashing light-, you drift right into it. That's why you see so many drunks plow right into the back of police cars with the lights flashing.
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Has anything been released yet about the driver as far as if he was under the influence of something, or motives, etc??
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Julebag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nothing has been in the media yet about that piece. The speculation is that he was under the influence, but it's purely speculation at this point. I've been told that state toxicology reports can take 1-2 weeks for full completion.

It is hard to believe that anyone could run over 9 cyclists at the rate of speed that occurred and do it while completely sober.



Julebag wrote:
Has anything been released yet about the driver as far as if he was under the influence of something, or motives, etc??
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Tsunami] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think the opposite. Too many people feel too self important to consider the greater good. Just 1 example is people tail gaiting the car ahead of them through a left turn signal that's already gone out. Said jackass now sits in the intersection b/c there never was enough clearance to complete the turn in the first place. Said jackass is now blocking traffic from every other direction, all b/c it was more important to them that they make THIS light than wait the 4 min until the next light cycle. If any drivers ever put others ahead of themselves, and as another post above said - LOOK for what might be coming instead of glance to verify a car isn't - there'd be fewer auto issues of all kinds.


BOOM!

So true.

I don't know what it is about getting behind the wheel but it seems to bring out an selfishness and entitlement index of 110% in so many.

I can't begin to list them all. All the little things that drivers do, that is really all about them and considers NO ONE else on the road.

Also, NO ONE ever admits they are wrong, at any time while driving - it's ALWAYS the other driver who is the problem.

This reaches the point of absurdity when cycling, when situationally, I will for my own safety decide to give-up my right of way to the motorist. I'll motion to the other vehicle and driver to, Go Ahead. I'll then get the finger from the driver. That's right. I'm ceding my right-of-way to them, and I'm getting the finger! Remember, it's always the other guy that's causing the problem!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This incident has had me thinking a lot about biking on the roads which I have been doing for over 30 years now. I think we, the cyclists, need to be aware that for 99% of us, we're on the road for either recreation or fitness. Both optional activities. I would bet that most drivers are on the road for something required of them, i.e. employment or appointments, somewhere to be, etc. God knows how many of them are running late for one of those activities so that may explain their impatience when delayed by a cyclist. This is why I find a weekend or holiday ride is so much more enjoyable due to low traffic volumes and, generally, nicer, patient drivers. I think it will go a long way to making my biking safer if all the bikers in my neck of the woods will be more courteous to drivers and yield the right of way when safe and possible. And, no I don't have a solution to the a-hole that caused this catastrophe; there will always be one-offs.
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fleck wrote:
I think the opposite. Too many people feel too self important to consider the greater good. Just 1 example is people tail gaiting the car ahead of them through a left turn signal that's already gone out. Said jackass now sits in the intersection b/c there never was enough clearance to complete the turn in the first place. Said jackass is now blocking traffic from every other direction, all b/c it was more important to them that they make THIS light than wait the 4 min until the next light cycle. If any drivers ever put others ahead of themselves, and as another post above said - LOOK for what might be coming instead of glance to verify a car isn't - there'd be fewer auto issues of all kinds.


BOOM!

So true.

I don't know what it is about getting behind the wheel but it seems to bring out an selfishness and entitlement index of 110% in so many.

I can't begin to list them all. All the little things that drivers do, that is really all about them and considers NO ONE else on the road.

Also, NO ONE ever admits they are wrong, at any time while driving - it's ALWAYS the other driver who is the problem.

This reaches the point of absurdity when cycling, when situationally, I will for my own safety decide to give-up my right of way to the motorist. I'll motion to the other vehicle and driver to, Go Ahead. I'll then get the finger from the driver. That's right. I'm ceding my right-of-way to them, and I'm getting the finger! Remember, it's always the other guy that's causing the problem!

THIS X 1,000. I drive a lot for work and I'm constantly blown away by the utter selfishness and sense of entitlement exhibited by motorists in my area. There is a general lack of concern for, and awareness of, other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists, or anyone besides themselves. Like Fleck said there are way too many examples to list but I'm sure we all see it day in and day out. I'm not sure if it's a lack of education on the laws, blatant disregard for them, or a little of both, but it's on constant display.

It doesn't help that local police here don't seem to enforce the rules of the road in any meaningful way. The State Police will pull people over for speeding and certainly drunk driving laws are enforced to the extent possible, but I can't remember the last time I saw a municipal cop stop a driver for a minor infraction like failure to yield, running a stop sign or red light, failure to stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk (which is the law here), etc. The process of dealing with a traffic ticket is a PITA and I believe it would deter many drivers from breaking the seemingly minor laws that can have major repercussions, but the lack of consequence reinforces the notion that motor vehicle laws are mere suggestions to be followed or ignored at a driver's discretion. As someone who frequently runs and rides on my local roads, I'd like to see drivers held to a higher standard of accountability.
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lance came up to Kalamazoo last night and rode the Tuesday Night Chain Gang ride with about 600 people. Say what you want about Lance, but I think this was a genuine gesture. A couple of the people still hospitalized were able to come out and watch.
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [Julebag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Julebag wrote:
Has anything been released yet about the driver as far as if he was under the influence of something, or motives, etc??


http://www.msn.com/...r-AAhr5J1?li=BBnbfcL

updates from today. looks like drugs.
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [mickison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Convicted of 2nd Degree Murder and sentence to 40-years in prison. LINK
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Seems like a lot until you do the math and realize that it’s just 8 years per cyclist. He should have gotten life without possibility of parole
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [xterratri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Charles Pickett Jr. apologized Monday and said he would give his own life for the people who were killed and injured. But a judge called his plea "woefully inadequate.""


Even so, I'm sure nobody would object if the judge took him up on his offer.

Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [xterratri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Seems like a lot until you do the math and realize that it’s just 8 years per cyclist. He should have gotten life without possibility of parole //

Did you see the picture of the dude? He will be lucky to serve out one of those 8 year sentences, let alone all of them. He got life, make no mistake about it..
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah the guy ain't going to last 40 years in prison.
Quote Reply
Re: The Kalamazoo Cycling Fatalities, Tuesday, June 7. [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
He wouldn't have lasted 8 years on the outside from the looks of him. The morbidly obese dont have a good track record of long or even reasonable life spans.
Quote Reply

Prev Next