To me, this is a ridiculous question, but here's my two-cents...

He's the greatest racer Kona has ever seen.

As for the ABC camera vans, it seems to me that Scott only came off the bike all alone in 1st place a few times during his six wins. Sometimes he was with Allen, Tinley, or whomever. Other times, it was Allen off the front (shadowing the vans?) and Scott would still run him down.

If one would doubt his true ability, just look at his two sub-8:30 times that he achieved AFTER the vans were gone and (more amazingly) AFTER he was into his 40's.

Dave defines Ironman Hawaii.

Hmmm... as long as playing devil's advocate is in order, I'd suggest that you have Dave confused with some folks from well east of Hawaii. Isn't the drafting the press van more of a German proclivity, ala Lothar Leder at Roth?

Dave's the real deal...and they don't call him "The Man" for nothing.

I'm not sure who the greatest single racer was. You could make a pretty strong case for Newby-Fraser, Scott, or Allen. Did they occasionally bend the rules a little? Yes. But they were still great athletes. I think you would have a hard time finding any professional triathlete who is squeaky clean when it comes to drafting and blocking.

Dave is certainly a hero in my book. He was well ahead of his time in terms of putting everything together...nutrition, strength training, training methods.

His marathon times alone should rank him as one of the best ever. How many course records did he set in Hawaii?

Dave's longevity is also a testament to his ability. He is still one of the fittest men out there, and he is also an excellent coach.

He and Allen made quite a pair. Allen's zen like spiritual approach to the sport with Scott's scientific workman like attitude.

Next we will be contemplating Tinley's status or maybe Molina. These are the men that defined our sport. Heroes? Maybe not. Legends, definitely. They are the Babe Ruth of our sport. We are all human and have flaws.

Craig

Pretty bold question you're asking "Iron Mike". The short and easy answer is HERO. The jury is still out on you but it don't look good.

No zero could ever win IMH 6 times. Furthermore, if my recollection is correct, Dave had never finished outside of top 2 until his 5th in 1996 (at age 42) and, of course, his DNF in 2001. And, this was done mostly n a time when there was no prize money; those athletes were more like AGers who have full time jobs and race purely for the challenge.

Although Dave is clearly a smart guy, his swim is not THAT strong by historical standards. Dave has never gone sub 50 minutes in the swim, nowhere near the top 10 best swims in Kona. Likewise, Dave has never had an especially fast bike split in the early years (though he did go sub 4:40 in '89 and '94), so that would seem to suggest that he was not "drafting the living daylights" out of the press vehicles (although I suppose a skeptic would claim he was saving his legs for the run). On the other hand, Dave has two of the top 10 run splits of all time in Kona.

Depending on the measure, either Dave Scot, Mark Allen or PNF could be considered he greatest Kona has ever seen. But, have no doubt, "The Man" is a class act.

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

OK, I'll play. Asking if Dave Scott is a hero is almost sacrilegious. Not sure what you're trying to get at with this question. I will never forget watching on ABC WW sports his IMH race against Allen 20 years ago, and in particular the marathon portion of that race with one guy chasing the other one down. I still visualize that race in my training and during races as what it means to be an IM. I don't consider many persons a hero but he is definitely one to me.

HERO

What's obvious to me is that with an 8:01 way back in 89 in humidity (Japan)

00:48:25 04:27:31 02:45:36 08:01:32

He's probably the best ever. The aeroheads on this board would easily give him a 7:50 if they could disect the bike he road! 14 years and it's still the 11th fastest time ever.

And the times he posted in hawaii 89

00:51:16 04:37:53 02:41:03 08:10:13

If he were in his prime no one on the planet these days could touch him.

The negative side of this is preposterous. Dave Scott is one of the greats of triathlon. He was the one that took long distance triathlon in particular Ironman Hawaii from being a test of survival to making it a real race - a race against time, a race against others and a race against one's self.

I had the privilidge of going for a 10 mile run with Dave a few years ago. The pace was fast and honest. I stood their chatting with him when we were done and I could not believe that this was a man in his late 40's. He is still in remarkably good shape and does not look at all like a man his age.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I'm guessing iron mike is a troll. He only signed up on the forum about a week ago. And, he's the same guy who asked "Does IM Hawaii suck?"

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...search_string;#54946

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

  Yo I am with Cathy on this one Iron Mike. What's up with the negativity. Do U even race or do you just like to wind people up? It is cool to disagree with what some people may say but to intentionally bash for the sake of stirring up the pot is ridiculous.

FIRELUV

about myself: i'm 23 yrs old, a grad student in canada, and have been a triathlete for 9 years.

frankly, i think the answer to this particular question was obvious to most of us before it was asked: of course dave was one of the best racers kona's ever seen. i'm not trolling to piss people off, but rather am interested in stimulating just the sorts of discussions that have arisen from my last two questions. i think forums and newsgroups are the perfect sort of place to hash out these issues - especially since they aren't hashed out on SportsDesk every night, nor at work or at home, for most of us. face it: triathletes who care as much as we do about this stuff make up a pretty small percentage of the population, so most of the time we meet and shoot the breeze in forums like this.

the nuts-n-bolts tech discussions here are useful and interesting; i'm an anthropologist by nature and by trade, though, and i'm more interested in questions about the values and ideals of people who - like me - have made this sport their lifestyle. if that's not your cup of meat, so be it - you're free to pass on by. the whole point is for this to be fun, after all.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

That was my thought too, Cathy. Just to be clear though - he's not THIS Iron Mike! Some Mikes don't deserve the title "Mike".

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Elivis needs boats.

>>i'm an anthropologist by nature and by trade, though, and i'm more interested in questions about the values and ideals of people who - like me - have made this sport their lifestyle.<<

OK. It's just the way you ask the question (hero/zero) that immediately sends up a troll alert.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I recall meeting Dave back in 1984. His girlfriend Linda (a famous triathlete in her own right) was on the college women's swim team at the same time I was on the mens. He was living in Davis at the time and came up to Chico State watch our conference championships . He was nice enough to give me a two hour ride back to Davis and I chatted with him about triathlon. I really knew nothing about the sport at the time but he was really cool telling me about it...little did I know at the time he was already pretty famous. No pretentiousness at all. I remember being blown away by his comment that he swam in college as well (UC Davis I believe) but the 1650 was just too short for him. Just looking at him and his intensity you could tell he was a stud and something special. I have been a Dave Scott fan ever since.

Mike

And b/c he signed up "only a week ago" makes a difference how?



He precluded his question by saying outright that he was going to play devil's advocate. I don't get how you jumped from that to trolling. Sounds to me like he was just trying to generate a discussion.

what I would like to know is what gave him the impression that Dave was using the ABC van as a drafting tool? sounds like he through it out there without doing much research or thought. There is a difference between being a devils advocate and an idiot. He sounds like the Rush Limbaugh of Triathlon forums.

>>And b/c he signed up "only a week ago" makes a difference how?<<

Because that's the usual MO of a troll. That, and the use of some of the terms.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"a strong swimmer who drafted the living daylights out of the moving vans ABC used to use for their TV cameras?"

Just out of curiosity, how does someone draft off the van? Doesn't the lead biker simply ride and it's the van driver who has to place the van the proper distance from the biker. I don't get how a biker can control that. I'm not trying to make a point, I'm genuinely curious.

Dave deserves the title "Lord of the Lava, King of the Kona Coast,The Man, etc." I've been fortunate to see him race in 89/94/96/01 before he dropped out.

The guy is amazing,he races with extreme ferocity-total focus out there in the lava fields. Also. the guy is ripped to the bone, I remember seeing him at the medical tent in 89 drinking a little bit of sprite and his legs were a roadmap of veins-just pumped up, and you could see every muscle in his legs-AMAZING.

Also, I've met him several times and had him help me with some coaching, and the guy not only has a sharp intellect, but a sharp wit and very cordial. He is one of the nicest pro's you will ever meet, and always takes the time to sign a autograph, or give a few pointers to his fans.

Try and find some old tapes of him racing in the 80's, I have one form 1987, when he let Mark go and caught him on the way back to town. That marathon run pumps me still to this day--the guy was like a rock, with intense energy extruding from him.

Hail to the King!!

Scott

Hardly a debate really. The proof of the pudding was in the eating and Dave sure dished a load of humble pie out. Regardless of how he won and in what circumstances, he trashed an assortment of names in a variety of conditions. His non finish a couple of years ago only highlights the difficulty - which for me only adds to the attraction and it's worth. I always thought of Hawaii as the best race that in the end only some of us will get to experience once in a lifetime (if at all).

Dave is the reason I started doing tri's.He'll always be a hero to me