Sorry, if you need any tire levers to install a clincher, you are doing it incorrectly. One lever should be sufficient to remove a clincher.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

My guess would be the valve stem is moving through the rim and down into the tube. That movement is causing a tear where the valve stem connects to the latex tube when you press your chuck onto the valve. The problem wasn't as prevalent in the past because valve stems were threaded and had a nut that locked them into place. Current valve stems and extenders for deep wheels have no threading and thus no way to prevent them from being pushed through the rim and into the tube during inflation.

We discussed this exact problem on ST a couple of months ago. Maybe you will find something in that thread that will help you.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...D_P7337806/#p7337806

"What tools does one require to remove a tubular?"


Razor blade.

I have ridden tubulars since 1986 for Tri, road and cyclocross, and I have some that are 20 years old that are functional. Latex tubes deteriorate over time, and Vittoria and Challenge use latex tubes, hence why they loose air over a few days. I have seen numerous latex tubed tubulars fail at the stem, especially if there was any sealant put in them. I have some continental tubulars, with butyl tubes, never had a problem, but they don't have the "low rolling resistance" that latex does. I had a pair of Vittoria green all weather tires that I stored for a few years, hoping to ride them some day soon. I went to pump them up, one failed at the stem. I emailed Vitoria USA and the rep told me, that is because the latex fails with age.

And...some hands. lol.
Actually I've been racing on Tubulars/sew ups since about '88. Never once had a flat while sitting on the bike racing it in all those years. Not once. I had one riding to transition race morning at Wildflower & then one in transition when a volunteer knocked me to the ground in '00 Ironman California-Camp Pendleton (must have been over inflated because it popped upon falling to the ground). But no in race on bike flats...where I've seen many friends flat in races with clinchers. Next bike I will be moving to tubeless probably though for race wheels. The tech is improving quite well as Slowman has mentioned before.

If you cut across the tubular tire completely to the rim, you simply stick your finger inside the tire and it peels off quite easily.

I use Effetto Mariposa only when I flat not as prevention but I love the stuff. It's very effective against punctures, even big ones to my surprise. Much better than Vittoria Pitstop. The problem is most of my flats are internal valve stem base types, not punctures. Sealants are useless for that. I don't pre-stretch my tires any longer, and this problem has afflicted me regardless of manufacturer and tube type. Pressures are way under max rating at between 120-130PSI. Something else is the problem and I refuse to accept the gluing method as a possibility because It didn't occur in the past with the same method. Only my weight has changed. I'm over 210lbs and the roads I ride are the worst most people can tolerate without suspension of some kind, but my riding style mitigates most of the latter problem and therefore can't be the cause either.

Yesterday, I purchased a roll of Effetto Carogna tubular tape. I installed it last night. This is the first time I ever used tubular tape and heard many good things. Aside from the high cost, why not give it a shot? Far less messy and there's no possibility the tire magically moves out of place to cause problems, assuming it ever did. I don't know if I'll get many more rides before spring since we're currently in a snow storm but I'll eventually see what happens with the tape. The tire is a 25mm Vittoria Rubino Pro and if it undergoes the same problem as its predecessors, then we have proof positive construction methods and/or materials are substandard to previous decades' equivalent products.

Unless you weight more than 175 lbs and your ride on 21-22 mm tubs, I think you put way too much pressure on your tubs.
I used to put 130 PSI on my tubs and clinchers, and had so many flats.
Now I inflate from 90 to 100 PSI on my 25 mm tubs (I weight 165-170 lbs) and very rarely have flats (we have 5 tubular wheelsets at home regularely riding).
If I rode on 22-23 mm tubs, I wouldn't go over 105-110 PSI.
I tried Rubino Pro's Graphene 25 mm last year, but they "self-destroyed" (rolling band came unglued from both sides like all new Vittorias I expericenced) after around 1000 km's...

LOuis :-)

I'm much heavier than you at anywhere between 210-220lbs. Also, my weight can risk rim damage if I hit a pothole with lower pressures. Don't want to risk that with expensive carbon wheels. There's a difference in opinion about pressure vs puncture proneness. The consensus among cyclists where I live is the more pressure the more likely a tire will resist punctures. In any case, that's not the kind of flat I'm experiencing with my tubulars, it's the valve area.

Vittoria tubulars definitely have quality control issues in their recent tubulars. Noticed this myself but again it doesn't explain why I have problems with Continental and other tire manufacturers unless it's a prevalent industry-wide degradation.

Yeah, at your weight, better have more tire volume IMHO. You sure are more prone to flats than my 110 lbs daughters.
I hope you ride at least on on 25 mm's, I'd go up to 27-28 mm tubs combined with large rims, for a nice tubular/rim interface. You won't break a rim, you have more chances to break a rim on a clincher if you flat.
Heavy riders like Tom Boonen and Fabian Cancellara did many Paris Roubaix races on 27-28 mm tubs, Tom Boonen said he put 65-85 PSI (f-r), they weight 180 + lbs (and believe me they smack a lot of cobbles head on at high speeds in that race). Boonen didn't flat more often than others...
I don't believe in high pressures anymore. So many tests to prove this now.
I don't think it has to do with poor gluing, but rather extreme pressure on the tube seam near the valve. High PSI and a few good "hits" and the tube will fail at the weak point, like said earlier IMO.

Louis :-)

This is good to know, because while I also have a can of Mariposa I take during races for a tubular flat--I just asked my shop if they work after about 6 or so years. Why? Because I haven't had a flat in a race with tubulars so don't know if it would expire or not. How well it would work, etc. Currently using Specialized Turbo Mountain Climbing 21 mm (I think) tubulars. Super light & Tom A. here on the forum actually suggested them for super low rolling resistance. I actually agree, they are a fantastic tire would buy them on the sale periods Specialized would have.

Tubular glue tape results in higher rolling resistance.

Maybe, and it probably weighs a little more but what has that go to do with the topic? I don't race and don't care. Far more of a concern is aborted rides and cost of tire replacement. The tape is more expensive than glue but if it reduces tire failures I'm all for it. It eliminates glue application variables. The tape was purchased only for one rim, the one that I needed to replace the recently wasted tire. This was only done as a trial to eliminate a possible cause to which I harbor much doubt, that the glue is insufficient or improperly applied and maybe causing the failures. If the problem still occurs then installment method is ruled out as a cause. Simple.

Tire width doesn't seem to have any bearing on this problem. I had 28mm Rubinos and they failed. Also a 27mm Vittoria Pave CG failed. My preferred width is 25mm although I do sometimes ride on narrower widths up front. Incidentally, these failures are FAR more frequent in the rear, which is probably obvious at this point.

I could try lower pressures closer to 100PSI but don't want to go any lower than that. If pressures are so problematic, then why do manufacturers print upper limits on their tires at much higher pressures than I inflate? Is that intended for featherweights?

Never heard of the tire but great to know. If the reliability and construction is good I might just try one out to see. At this point what do I have to lose? Heck, I think Specialized is the only brand of tubulars I haven't tried. Always loved the brand when I rode on clinchers but I never see any LBS carry their tubulars as regular stock. It's all Continental and Vittoria here with the rare Tufo and Bontrager.

I've used Vittoria most of my racing years, with some sad experimentation with TUFO for a couple years, then Conti Comp, and while I've been a fan of the Vittoria (usually Corsa CX or CG over the years), I actually like these Specialized Turbo Cotton Tubular Mountain best--but they come with a warning to not exceed a certain number of miles. I think it was like 500 I'd have to check. But they sure have a nice supple ride. Normally $100/tire but as I said, I wait for the sales & only use 1 season or 1.5 season per set, depending on the number of races I do. Which due to that being ZERO in 2020, I have pretty much all of 2021 to use them still. I just put new ones on in November last year and did 1 race.

Why would higher tire pressure lead to more clincher flats?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

I could try lower pressures closer to 100PSI but don't want to go any lower than that. If pressures are so problematic, then why do manufacturers print upper limits on their tires at much higher pressures than I inflate? Is that intended for featherweights?

the pressures are maximums, not recommendations. Tubs can handle very high pressures, which are good for certain, very limited, circumstances, but by the same token they can be safely ridden at much lower pressures than clinchers since they don't carry the same risk of pinch flatting.

Generally, I'd ride tubs at 10psi or so less than the same width clincher.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I have had good luck with Specialized tubulars over the 10 years...road and cross. That said I have had tubes fail at the valve interface on both tubular and clincher setups, both latex and butyl. Usually the butyl tubes had a lot of miles on them, and I fill/check tires everyday I am riding, but there were some that failed after only a few rides too.

Has anyone cut open a tubular to see what kind of tube is installed? I wonder if the new style latex valve reinforcement has anything to do with the problems you are having. Apparently the reinforced area around the valve has gone from a large-ish oval shape to a smaller round one and people are having trouble with the same kind of failure you are talking about.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...tring=latex#p4597956

Rich

When I rode with lower pressures in the past I was getting more punctures from objects on the road. I guess I need to find that ideal middle ground, pun intended.

I will be doing things a little differently considering the incredible fragility of tires nowadays. I'll inflate to between 110-120 in the rear and about 100 up front. A little leery to lower pressures but I'll see what happens. However, if there is an improvement I won't be able to tell if it's the lower pressure or the tape I'm using. After a quarter century of computer troubleshooting, I know not to make more than one change at a time to determine the cause of a problem.

Thanks for finally confirming what I suspected, 'something' has indeed changed. I don't know if this could be the cause but think it's rather too coincidental not to be the case. If clincher tubes are also failing at the valve stem, then I might not be out of the woods if I ever decide to switch to clinchers. That's not reassuring.