The short easy answer is this: Rotating weight is more important than stagnant weight. So wheels are more important than bottle cages or stems. The faster the rotating part the more important it is. So spokes would be more important (weight wise anyway) than pedals (because spokes spin at a faster weight than pedals). Of course the rider's weight is just as important as the bikes when hill climbing. There is no real distinction between the two. At least that's what I've always understood.

opps.........I meant to say .....spokes spin at a faster RATE than pedals.....

I've heard the same thing ... light wheels are the most important. However, I don't think that many people would notice much difference in performance between a 16 lb bike and a 20 lb bike for most tri courses.

Liked you comment about rider weight. I recall a number of years ago admiring a Calfee Tetra in a transition area that was tricked out with really light weight carbon saddle, seatpost, bars, etc. While I was looking at the bike the owner came over to show it off to me. He was about 5 foot 8 and 210 with a big gut. I figure he could have ridden faster on a mountain bike if he dropped 25 lbs of his "frame"!

LOL, yeah and though I'm no expert I can't believe jiggling bellies are very areo.

      While the fifty dollar water bottle cage is a little much, it's my opinion that on any hilly course or a course with alot of turns, a lighter bike will be faster and leave much more in your legs for the run. The old bicycling saying is "1 gram on the wheels = two on the frame= five on the rider." Smaller frames do make sense, you should always choose the smallest frame that will fit you, and light weight components are usually higher quality and will be more durable than the less expensive. Going to Lake Placid? Choose the lighter bike and have a better run.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

So often people ask "How much does this bike weigh?" as though they are using that as a basis for comparison between bikes. I don't think that is an entirely good idea. Competitive bicycles need to be light, and most are, but there are a number of other factors- such as fit and mechanical reliability that I think subordinate the weight issue. Weight is important anywhere it is rotating- Outer circumference of wheels- especially at rims. Pedals and shoes and also perhaps high on the bike where it is being rocked back and forth as you climb out of the saddle. three areas I think weight saving actually makes you faster is going to Speedplay type pedals, lighter shoes (I use Sidi T-1s)and lightweight race wheels like my favorites Zipp or Hed. Once that is done getting some weight off the saddle/seatpost area and going to lighter handlebar set-ups makes sense. Beyond that I don't obsess too much. A lot of lightweight, aftermarket componentry I've seen, used sold and installed came with some serious compromises in performance and durability. Are you willing to make those compromises? What if your gear fails in an event you've spent all year preparing for? Is that worth shaving 40 grams? Swiss enginerr Paul Kochli once did a fairly comprehensive study on weight vs. performance and Craig Turner of Nytro, also an engineer by training has done a lot of investigation into weight. My impressions, however rudimentary, of their findings are that weight becomes critical on long climbs. Here in Michigan, we don't have any, but at the Ironman races people around here aspire to (Lake Placid, Wisconsin, Canada) there is a healthy dose of climbing. Weight becomes a factor there and I push Zipp wheels, light saddles and Speedplay pedals for those athletes. Finally, if you shop for gear based solely on weight don't freak when the stuff breaks after a year of normal use. It's racing equipment- you bought it not becasue it was bombproof, you bought it because it was light. Last year Frankie Andreu gave his dad, Frank Senior, a new Ti railed saddle. Frank Senior puts on some serious miles. He's not a little guy either. The saddle broke in a year. He came into my store and said "Tom, can you warranty this?" I was like "Frank, you've been on that nasty old thing all year!" He said, "It's brand new, Frankie just gave it to me last year!" One man's brand new is another man's obsolete and broken.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

sweeney's old saw is true, i believe.

if i might add, it is sometimes enlightening ( HEH HEH) to look at the simple "cost per gram" figures when comparing light parts. if weuse the dlloar per gram rule, for example, on a set of cranks: ultegra's cost $ 109 and weigh 643 gm. a fsa carbon unit costs $380 and weighs 515 gm for a dollar per gm of around 2 bucks per gram. if we look at a campt record carbon it is closer to 6 - 7 bucks per gm as the campy costs 8 bills and weighs 530 gm. there figures are very poor. compare two ultra light inner tubes weigh around 70 gms less than a set of standard tubes, yet cost only 6 bucks more, for a ratio of better than 10 gms per dollar spent - and it is peripheral rotating weight so you could actually double the already more tenfold improvement on the cranks !!

in general if you get into this you will find a ratio of a buck a gram to be the norm, things under that ( like cranks) could be considered a fool's game.

ironically, thought they offer the worst gm per dollar figures cranks are often what people like and think of first !! even more ironic is that next to cranks, ultralight frames are the worst performers on the dollar per gram meter - and everybody likes light frames just like cranks - consider most modern wicked light frames are around 2.5 lb, and cost 1800 - 3000 bones. you can get a modern steel frame for as little as 675 bucks which will weigh 3.25 lbs (and might even be custom built for you). so, the buck per gram ratio is close to say, $1575 on avg for only 330 gms or so of weight or almost $5 per gram - pretty poor. and yet it is the 2.5 wonder frame that gets every body excited, even tho you could easily match those 330 gms for well under 330 dollars which some selective parts picks on nearly any ultergra level bike. funny, eh?

Weight is of virtually no significance on flat stretches. It counts on hills but figure it as a % of the total of bike and rider. Thus a 20 lb bike with a 150 lb rider won't be much different total weight with an 18 lb bike and 150 lb rider. Also it's easier and less expensive to lose two lbs off your body than it is off the bike. Aerodynamics is much more important. Read this.

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/aero.htm

Funny thing about tubes...I never skimp on tubes... I usually buy heavier tubes (i.e., thicker) and will even ride with liners to prevent punctures while training or doing long course triahlons. The reason is simple, I don't want to have the fastest, lightest bike sitting on the roadside with a flat. I guess you could say that would make it the "fastest potential - slowest actual" bike on the course.

FWIW Joe Moya

http://www.analyticcycling.com/...LessWeight_Page.html

Say, what do you know about wheels for climbing? Obviously we want the least amount of rotation weight, but this data doesn't seem to be readily available for specific wheelsets.

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"mt evans in 2:07:33"

I could stand to lose Lance's bike. Healthily. That would still leave me a good 10-15 lbs heavier than any elite runner or ITU triathlete of the same height, but unless I were to get really sick, there's just no way that last 10-15 is ever coming off (residual muscle mass from my weighlifting days).

If you're anywhere near my shape, cutting weight from your bike isn't the #1 thing you can do to improve performance. Hell, it probably isn't even in the top 10. But if you've got the cash to spend, (or are in remarkably good shape, have a coach as well as excellent run form and swim technique) then do what the others say here and reduce the rotating weight first (wheels, pedals, cranks, etc). Just bear in mind the immortal words of Tom D, and expect your tricky new gear to wear out within a few years.

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
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Weight matters on climbs. But, the wieght should only come off of the bike after the most can be remove from the body.

One caveat: go responsibly light. I remember the "drillium" phase everyone went through many moons ago. Guess what? It resulted in many broken parts.

I have had some of the ti bolts break. Remember aluminium bolts? They were crap.

Worry about the rotating parts. I will ride a Selle San Marco Rolls saddle (not exactly light) on my climbing bike (which happens to be my road bike) as comfort dictates. I am using a Look HSC3 fork on this, as well as cutting off any unnecessary seat post, but I will not go nuts. The lightweight thing I did do that sacrificed neither function nor stength was to use down tube shifters- that saved a ton, and was a very cheap upgrade. I also am using a shorty aerobar (400 grams) rather than a full aerobar, but I am not going to use a silly carbon fibre drop bar as they are not rated for the aerobar AND they are not the stiffest things out there. I am scared of the ones that save that much weight over the lightest aluminium ones.

But, my wheels will be the real story: Lew Sydney front (470 grams), Nimble Fly rear (845 gr) with Tufo Elite Jets (145 gr per tyre). This should result in a steel road bike well under 20 lbs, a huge savings over what I had ridden as a road bike even ten years ago. This bike is going in a race that has a couple of double digit % grade climbs, as it will be much lighter than Samantha (as she cost me a place or two in the same race last year).

In the end, a light bike will get you up the hill a bit faster, but be responsible and don't go for anything that is flimsy.

bunnyman said >I remember the "drillium" phase everyone went through many moons ago.

Hehehe. . . I actually saw an old motobecane with drillium Campy hanging on it in a tri last weekend. Haven't seen that for a long time. Not since my second hand Colnago back in the mid eighties. Hell, this guy was retro down to his vintage leather lace up Diadora shoes and his leather strapped toe clips, and his porkchop sideburns and scraggly hair. Needless to say, his transition wasn't the speediest! Damn cool though! Of course he ruined it by wearing a full Desoto tri gittyup. Woulda been perfect with an old pair of wool shorts and a sparkle transfer, county fair t-shit that said "Keep on Truckin"

Does anyone know what the ratio is between lb's lost off the body to onces lost on the bike. It seems that 5lbs. lost off your body from the season before (assuming that it was a healthy weight loss), than a pound lost on the bike would be completely overshadowed. Just a thought.
I have lost 12 pounds from last season and I went from a 21mph 40k to a 25mph 40k (same course -same conditions), with proper training of course.

Daniel

"Our bodies are our gardens - our wills are our gardeners" - William Shakespeare

Tom Warren was racing in your neighborhood last weekend?

As a Deadhead from the days before they even had a record label, I can remember my old PX-10 Puegot with the kangaroo skin shoes and the old metal cleat that caught the edge of the pedal and left you helpless in a panic stop...

I had the long hair moustache and sideburns goin' too. I remember that bike being extremely comfortable, but then my butt was only 19 years old!!

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Hey Tim any recommendations for info on steel frames? This is something I've been considering more and more lately. A good custom steel frame is sounding better and better every time I see the MSRP of a Litespeed or similar Ti frame.

Weight loss equasion....



New seat post that will save 15 grams over current post for - $180.00

Dropping 15 grams at the barber shop pre race - $15.00

Dropping 1/2 pound in the potty before a race - $0.00

The way you feel after spending your 401k on a super light bike - then adding a tool kit, spare tubes, change, CO2 and all the other stuff you need....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I learned this the hard way. 2 simutaneous blowouts halfway through an 18 mile bike leg at Malibu Nautica. Had to hitch a ride back to the TA. I took my nearly new $1,000 wheelset back to the shop for an autopsy. Both tubes had split seams. Likely cause: a pothole at the turn around combined with ultralight tubes. The tech recommended running heavier tubes which is all I use now. Light and expensive is no advantage if it can't take normal abuse.

Larry

chris in balto. steel frame, you say ?? i thought we were talking about "light". :) anyway - we will need parameters, my friend. money, for one. need for art level finish, for two, custom or stock, for three, etc. here are a few to look at, off the top of my head from each category:

cheap : very freaking hard to beat curtlo. 675 bucks for a full custom ox platinum bike. close second, gunnar or that maker out in SF that does reynolds 653 bikes. don't forget the closeout prodigies at supergo.

art level - take yer pick. steelman, strong, IF all have killer bikes either stock or custom you could be on very fast for 1K give or take. many others, too.

state of the art: true temper S3. waterford is set to rumble on these, as are others. these will set you back some ching on the line of a ti sled, but Oh-so-f-ing -fine.

finally, as you note - killer fine steelbikes are a steal these days. why anybody would pay twice as much for a orient built aluminum/carbon generic bike with a "name" on the downtube when they could have a steelman and a total upgrade in parts is COMPLETELY beyond me, brother.

maybe this should be another thread. . . . . .:)

This is too easy!!!





Operator weight is most important.

15lb, 20lb, 25lb bike makes some difference of course, but operator weight is far and away the biggest component of the bike/rider in a race.

Get down to race weight THEN worry about bike stuff.

Me? 85kg chubby, 172cm short and lusting after a really nice lightweight bike. Stupid? Nah! just a gear hog trigeek. Go large or go home.



TriDork

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"