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running miles & intensity
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I'm about 20 weeks away from my first major race and was wondering what others are doing that far out for running miles. I'm putting in 30-40 total miles and on the track 1-2x per week running with the middle group (around 6-6:10pace) Not fast but not slow. More like cruise intervals.
For an ex-collegiate XC runner that has become my achilles heel. In duathlons I'm opening with a high 35 to low 36min 10k. Puts me about 2 to 2:30 min back in my AG. Your thoughts and creative feedback are encouraged.

Brian Stover USAT LII
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Re: running miles & intensity [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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My new theory is more miles, more miles. I was a 30-40 mile a week guy during the two years I ran college track and never ran very fast (relative to the competition at the time). Over the past year I ran more miles and did less speedwork and took two minutes off my 10K (37:00 to 35:00) time for Olympic Distance and can now run the whole 13 miles in a Half-IM.

I also set a half-marathon PR twice in September and expect to do the same at several shorter distances in November. And all this eight years removed from college with a job and family.

Two years ago I averaged 22 miles a week. This year my average was up to 41 a week. This is a slightly higher average than college, but doesn't include bike or swim time. My goal is to increase this to about 65 a week by next year at this time.

The important thing to remember about the great majority of these miles is that you need to run them at your very upper aerobic threshhold or just below 80 percent max heart rate. Along the way you can do some tempo (85-90 percent mhr) and strides, but building up that aerobic engine will do most of the work.
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Re: running miles & intensity [cdwalton] [ In reply to ]
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How do you normally break down those weekly miles (say 40 per week)? Having no running background, and also prone to overuse injuries, I'd be curious what the real runners are doing.

Right now I'm at about 20 miles per week, consisting of a 7 miler and three 4 milers. I'm planning on increasing this to about 35 - 40 per week over the winter months.

Thanks,

J
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Re: running miles & intensity [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude,

Seems like you might know the answer … which cdwalton mentioned. Mileage. If you ran cross in college then your mileage is pretty low from a competitive running standpoint. There are two basic options, as I see it:

1) Increase your running mileage, do a lot of it at aerobic threshold, and in the final two months before the race start adding faster LT/V02 speedwork. The cruise intervals at five months out sound good to me. If you can jump up to 50-60-70 mpw averages (with about 30-50% at aerobic threshold and 5-10% at LT, more towards the race) your 10k time should drop back towards your collegiate times.

2) Keep the run mpw roughly the same but focus on becoming a monster biker, so you eat up that 2 minute deficit on the bike.



Jasonk – at 40 miles per week and five months out from the goal race, mileage breakdown could be something along these lines:

5-10% LT (your weekend 5k race as a hard tempo, for example) and very limited V02 (hard sprint) work

30-50% at aerobic threshold, some in hills

The rest easy during warm up, warm down, long easy runs, and drills



Depending on winter goals and limiters, these percentages could change, but they’re a reasonable guideline, IMHO.

Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Swim Series | Old School Aquathon Series
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Re: running miles & intensity [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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If I was going to run about 40 miles a week and wanted to do up to Half-IM then I would break it down generally as a 15-miler, a couple of 10-milers and and easy five-mile day. If you are doing Olympic or shorter your long run doesn't need to be much more than 12.

If you are starting to increase, make sure you have fresh shoes regularly. It is a myth that running a lot of miles causes injuries. Injury comes from increasing mileage too fast or running too fast when your body isn't ready for it. Part of injury prevention is listening to your body and not pushing when it tells you to rest. Hard working, motivated triathletes can be their own worst enemy if they keep pushing after the body is shot.
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Re: running miles & intensity [cdwalton] [ In reply to ]
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Yep more miles and a long run. currently I get about 8- 10 on t and th with warm up, cooldown and repeats.
I always ran fastest when I was doing a nice 11-15 miler weekly.
My other advice is never take 2 years off of working out. My cycling is actually faster thanks to bike racing but the running never came back around. I'll never be as fast as I once was for 10k but crimy I only want to run high 34's.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: running miles & intensity [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Desert Dude,

Don’t give up on the run times. I took 10 years off running from my sophomore year of high school to when I went back to college again at age 24. That was nine years ago and I have been setting PRs this year thanks to doing more volume and less speed. I race pretty regularly and just do aerobic work the rest of the time.



I raced bikes during those nearly ten years off and hardly ever ran. Then I ran in college for about 18 months, finished school, went into the military and did very little training for two years, then started running a little more seriously four years ago. My philosophy then was that you had to run fast in training to run fast in races. A year ago I tried the higher volume and the results surprised me. I am much faster than during my college track days.



My first major races are about 20 weeks away and I am going to spend the next four months building up my run miles to as much a I can handle (perhaps as much as 90mpw). I’ll try to maintain about 5-6 hours a week on the indoor bike and build up to 10, 000 meters weekly in the pool and I fully expect to crush my old PRs at every distance once the spring starts. If you want some good reading on run training philosophy, try this one:



http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/lydpg2.html

Lydiard learned more by trial and error than just about any runner alive. It sure worked for me.
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Re: running miles & intensity [cdwalton] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the info. I bookmarked it and will pruse through it this weekend. Good to know that 10yrs off and your running better than ever. There is hope!

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: running miles & intensity [cdwalton] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, here's a question for you. I'm slow. I mean really slow. Like a 2:07 20k slow. And I'm 28. I haven't had much athletic experience since high school save for regularly lifting 12 oz. at a time. My current weekly milage is about 20-25 miles a week, including an 8 mile run on Saturdays. Do I just need to keep pounding the pavement? I'm not looking for a miracle, but I'm in the bottom of my age group and I'm not satisfied with that. Any thoughts or words of encouragement?
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Re: running miles & intensity [goditshothere] [ In reply to ]
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We are all limited by genetics. I am 72 inches and 154 pounds, so I have a great running body. However, our bodies all respond to training stimuli in the same manner, so more mile for anyone will help.

Though lots of miles help at all distances, it is most notable the longer you go. Case in point--two years ago at this time I raced a 5K on Thanksgiving during my 25 miles-a-week days. I beat a fellow runner of mine by about 20-30 seconds. Two weeks later during a 12K he returned the favor and beat me by about 30-40 seconds. You can get away with low miles up to 5K, but beyond that you have to work on your aerobic efficiency and that comes with running more miles.

So yes, if you want to run faster, you need to do more. I'm no coach, but here is what I would do. Buy a heart rate monitor and use it to figure your max heart rate. Easiest way to do this is to warm up for a mile or so and then run up a hill as fast as you can for about 5-10 minutes. Or you can do it on a treadmill and increase the speed and incline. You know you are close to max when your lungs are threatening to heave up through your throat and your legs are on fire.

Take that number and add about 5 beats. I use about 195 and we can start with that. Mulitply the number by 70, 80, 85 and 90 percent. So for me that would be 136, 156, 166 and 176.

136-156 bpm represents my upper aerobic limit. 90 percent of my miles need to be run in this range to get the max benefit from workouts. Once you get a feel for what that means to you in terms of pace, then you don't have to wear the hr monitor anymore. Using the 10 percent rule I would start increasing mileage very slowly. Remember, RUNNING DOESN'T CAUSE INJURIES. I will dispute this with anyone. Injuries come from increasing your mileage or your speedwork to quickly, i.e. you didn't give your body enough time to adapt. Or you have the wrong shoes and run in them too long.

You also need to stretch the Quads, Hamstrings, Calves and IT Band on the side of your leg. This will help you avoid knee pain. If you haven't done so, have a professional look at your feet and make sure you are wearing the right shoes. Once you have the right shoe, track your miles and change them out often.

That brings me to a running log. In order to be patient and increase slowly over time you must keep track of what you are doing. Whenever I get sick I can always go back to my log and see that I just plain overtrained. It is indispensable in the trial and error business of improving.

Now for the other numbers. Once you are running as many miles as you think you can handle and feel pretty comfortable, then you can throw in a tempo run at 85-90 percent of your max. This is a very precise range representing your anaerobic threshhold. Too low means you are not training aerobically, but neither are you training your anaerobic threshold. Too high means you have passed your threshold and will very soon be visiting lactic acid hell. Ed Eyestone, a two-time Olympic marathoner and monthly writer for Runners World said that if he had to pick only one type of speedwork, it would be tempo runs. Start out at 2-3 miles and work up to six at the most.

Other than that I think training is simple. At some point you will need to run long-up to 20 miles-in training if you do half or full Ironman events, but for anything shorter 12-15 is plenty.

And thus you have the gospel according to Chad... :)
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Re: running miles & intensity [cdwalton] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the advice. For someone so new to the sport, it's nice to receive advice and encouragement from something other than a book.
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Re: running miles & intensity [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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IMO, most people have enough raw speed to run as fast as they need for a 10k. We can all go to the track and run a 400 at that pace. A common mistake I see is people doing speedwork at the track at a pace that is too fast for what is needed. In the same thought, many people I meet don't run fast enough to be able to show up on race day and run what they want. I guess you need to find that medium. Slow down the speed of speedwork from what you might want to run on the track so the duration can be increased. Speedwork should be a strength and form building exercise in the pure sense. That said, for most of us, increased mileage and longer runs thrown in will makes us faster up to a certain point and somewhat rapid gains can be made up to that point. Once you get to what is "fast" for your own physiology, gains are harder and slower, potentially prompting increased "speed" work to allow you to move beyond the point that increased mileage alone may take you to.

I often tell people that you can't expect to show up and race 5:00 min pace if you never train faster than 5:30 min pace. If I have been doing mile repeats at 4:40 pace, that 5:00 pace seems much less harsh. However, if I only do 400 M repeats at 4:40 pace, I don't think I am developing enough speed specific strength to show up and race 5:00 pace either. We all are individuals so your "mileage" may vary but finding that middle ground is the key.
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Re: running miles & intensity [JeffJ] [ In reply to ]
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Another cornerstone to cdwaltons info is make sure your doing several runs in the 5-7 mile range. IMO this is where you get the benefit of being able to hold a fast pace b/c you have developed the strength and this ialso nsures you have put in the miles to be able to do a good 10k. If your only doing 3-4 miles those extra 2-3 are loooong.
I think it's better to build a bit of speed then tack on a lot of strength runningie tempo and long runsthen build more speed, ie track work.
If your new to running don't worry about the track develop a high lactate threshold through consistent tempo runs after a big base has been laid down.
It's the off season, there is no such thing as a junk mile. The more the merrier. As long as your smart about racking them up.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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