True. But what kind of person would he be if he didn't offer proof.

A charlatan.

Well, Isaac - I wear socks that my fiancee knits for me out of wool I spin from my cat's fur. When I started wearing these socks, I became wealthy. Not only that, but women were going crazy for me! (Don't tell my fiancee) And to top it all off, I developed the ability to see infrared light! My cat's name is Captain Squinty Todd. Sock's made from his fur are only $999.97. All these people who want "data" are just suckers and will never know the joys that you and I do! These socks have changed my life! They can change yours too! Let me know how many pairs you want.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Well that is a nicer response, but I never changed the subject. If you consider experience in the human condition of the individual then there is no acceptable proof. I can not conclude what you testify to feeling as an individual. If aspirin works for you then it does, whether it placebo or not. Afrin works for me and makes me feel better. So when I give my experience when asked, it is what it is. There is no proof otherwise, nor can there be. The lead poster asked the question if anyone had experience with the contraption and I do. Whether or not it works for him is irrelevant, it does for me and if you've experienced extreme pain then $600 is cheap. As you get older you really don't want to increase drugs which pain drives you toward. Pain will make you do almost anything, forget almost. Doctors will not do anything else for my knees other than injections or knee replacement, so trying this was an easy thing to do although, had not my son bought it I would be in the critics corner. I was trying to share my experience not my opinion. My opinion was negative but my experience was positive. Hope this helps.

I just signed up, however I am not a shill. I am investigating the use of LED therapy for joint pain. Have not bought yet. I am 59 with bilateral knee replacements, and the recovery is no picnic. Change of barometric pressure is brutal. For me in the past, Syn-Visc was a waste of 12,000.00. NSAIAs produce results but after bone on bone, nothing is that effective. Steroid shots worked but you can't ride that horse forever.

There are research reports on LED therapy:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/...23_14-OR-21/_article

http://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S0004951414601276

http://link.springer.com/...39-011-0454-7#page-1

http://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S1011134407001273

The research uses 680 and 684 nm laser, compared with placebo.

Results seem somewhat encouraging. Not many American studies. There may be something there, but like any treatment, it won't work for anyone.

Do a search on Google Scholar. Remain skeptical.

As I said you're not mathematicians. There are proofs and there are givens. Well there are fools.

Ed, my grand kids would kill you. "What in the wild, wild world of sports is goin' on" with you. Please don't try to enter this discussion.

Why would your grand kids kill me? They and you, I am sure, are aware that to get wool from an animal you do not harm the animal? And I've been in this discussion for a while now, so.... too late. But anyway, how many pairs of socks can I put you down for?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Trader, as you can see from my post I do have one and am using regularly. For me it has reduced pain significantly. I've done all the things you have. Saw the ads on tv but was skeptical and did not research. My son knew my condition (he also played football and has a bad knee) and decided to use me as the experimental subject. I've used it for a couple of months, and as hard as it is for me to admit it seems to be doing as advertised. I told my son to wait another month just to make sure it's not a placebo effect. Now, if I play racquetball 2 days in a row, I've got to sit 3 to 4 days. ( I just can't make my self quit, still love beating the young guys). If I stay with the elliptical 30min medium intensity 4-5 days/wk for age 70 (I'm 78) I'm ok. Before knee replacement, to me it's a no-brainer--a lot of the young guys on this blog will pick up on that. Good luck to you.

You got me lad, cool always gets to me.

ps: Row I apologize. I got you mixed up with the "randomized double-blind placebo group designed" plagiarist. Oops. I'm now on my second scotch so, adieu to all

You've registered today, posted 16 times on this post, which, frankly, is very prolific for anyone, let alone for an elder statesman. You've also written your posts in a style that is very different than your generation- a much younger, style of writing. Anyway- a 78 year old, posting prolifically, with atypical writing patterns about a very controversial item = Epic Fail.

LOL! Right back at you.

Interesting group here. 'Pseudoscientist' is funny. I kinda think in 40 years of clinical and basic studies I might qualify more than 'pseudo', then again you been talking to the moron chairman where I work???

:-)

How did I miss this gem!

:)

Edit: Oh No! It's from Monroe MI. I used to live there :0

You may find this to be an interesting article on Low Level Laser Therapy: http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/lllt.shtml

"At this writing, the bottom line appears to be that LLLT devices may bring about temporary relief of some types of pain, but there's no reason to believe that they will influence the course of any ailment or are more effective than other forms of heat delivery."

Furthermore, ask yourself this...the Willow Curve's website claims that the lasers are safe enough that you do not need any kind of eye protection. In order for that to be true, then from what I've read, the lasers are probably on the order of <1milliwatt. Additionally, I don't believe that anything eye safe is not going to penetrate the skin very far, if at all.

Spot

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Dr Shapiro, is that you?

I wasn't entirely convinced by your answer to the question, "How does it work?" here in this interview:

http://www.wxyz.com/...pain-launches-monday

Your quote: "Well there's a lot of technology involved in here. Multiple technologies...multiple energies...delivered in a very unusual fashion to produce your body's reduction in pain. ... It's got medical science behind it."

It really should be noted by everyone that their own advertisement says the Willow Curve provides TEMPORARY pain relief. So does aspirin and a heating pad. Don't spend $600.00 for this gimmick.

I came here to read about the curve, but became fascinated by Captain Squinty Todd fur socks. I enjoyed the thread.

15% discount for a limited time only! And if your order now get a free slap-chop!

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Can I keep the slap chop if I return the curve?

Resurrect a dead thread for some closure (and if anyone stumbles upon this thread researching willow curve):
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-22-million-judgment

But it worked for my cousin's sister's brother.