Yeah, that's a nice gig for them. It's really lame when there's a mail-in option. Just so I have it straight- I enter my personal data for you so you don't have to decipher my handwriting, pay you electronically so you don't have to mess around with a personal check, and provide marketing data (limited, I admit) to active- for this instead of a discount, I get an additional fee? Best of all the fee isn't provided until the last moment, rather than straight up like honest merchants. Seems like active should be getting the cash from the RD (or the RD should be charging more for mail-in, I guess).

Ken

That is ridiculous. How much is the race? I know the fee for IMUSA was $16(4%).

I registered for a turkey trot today and it was $17 + $2 for the active.com fee, which, while still high(~12%), is not an increase over what I've seen for any other $20 races.

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I agree completely! Active is a rip off. I always use the mail in option is possible just out of principle. It would also be interesting to see how long Active is sitting on your/our money before remitting to RD's (can you say float management)? I wish these races would just charge a single fee to cover everything but the USAT license. Even a great RD like TriCal charges all these garbage fees. I guess we are just a captive audience and they can do with us what they will.

BTW Cathy, great riding this weekend in your favorite SoCo riding spot. Alexander Valley is beautiful about now with all the vines turning colors and the wine tasting tourists somewhat abating.

Well, you have a point. It's a service- but an expensive one. The only thing I'm really mad about is I didn't think of it. I think it was Dan E. who said on line registration is one of the biggest technological contributions to our sport in the last two decades.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Or, you could look at it this way.

Instead of having to find an entry form online, (or at a race, or at a shoe store) open it in pdf format, print it, fill it out by hand, address an envelope, mail it off. HOPE it gets there... wait for your check to clear, wait for your confirmation that your entry was received and not thrown away by a well-meaning, but overworked volunteer... You can set up an account, click a button, confirm your already-entered information and feel good knowing you're signed up and confirmed for a race in a matter of minutes.

I think you are forgetting that active is a business, if you want to talk about bending over and taking it, there are plenty of professions and services that are far more financially punitive. Legal counsel, gasoline, buying bike tubes at an LBS, asprin at a hospital ...

A lot of effort and expense was put into creating an efficent way to quickly register for events. $12.50, while steep, is no worse in my eyes than paying for any number of convenience-based services. And being able to train for an event knowing that I'm actually in the event is added piece of mind that's worth half that fee in and of itself.

My 2 cents ...

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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!

From their FAQ...

The processing fee covers the cost to fulfill your registration through Active. This charge includes services like taking and maintaining your registration data on our registration systems, providing customer service, and coordinating with the organizer of the activity for which you've registered. It is applied to an entire order. Both the activity organizer and Active determine the charge on an event-by-event basis.

I shared your viewpoint until the last time this subject came up, at which point some of the RD's who post here informed me that those fees are already built into the cost of producing the race. While I do think that Active performs an important service, especially for IM races that sell out in a day or two, well before any post would arrive, I also feel that there should be a single charge for entering an event, as opposed to having part of the fee built-in and part of the fee as a separate charge.

Sadly, the whole world is going the way of Ticketmaster, where we don't realize that the ticket/entry vendor makes money from the actual ticket/entry sale, in addition to the fees they charge us on top of that.

One thing that I did see today that was very interesting, and perhaps RD's should consider it, is this: Use PayPal. I bought something today using PayPal(for the first time) and much to my surprise, there was no additional fee involved. I paid PayPal, PayPal paid the vendor, the vendor shipped my stuff. I realize that the vendor is paying PayPal, and that this is built into the price I pay, but that is how it should be. What's next? Perhaps a separate chip-timing fee?

The problem that using PayPal presents for the RD is that now he has to do some actual entrant management, as opposed to having the entrants pay Active to do this for him(although let's be honest; writing a gateway from PayPal to the RD's race management software shouldn't be that complicated.) Dan's article on being an RD was very enlightening on this subject.

I'm beginning to rant, so I'll stop now.

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Oh, I hear you talking, I'm not saying active doesn't provide a service, they do. My take is more- to whom do they provide the service? If as an RD you make a habit of losing mailed in forms, I would think your career as a RD would be hectic and short. If I were an RD, I think I probably wouldn't accept mail-ins, getting the participants to create my database for me is so much easier. So much easier, in fact, that I might be willing to pay for the service. But also think of all the other online transactions available to you which don't require a fee. Most utilities are happy to cut their adminstrative costs by allowing you to pay your bills electronically and save them the headache etc.

Admittedly for the reasons you describe, it is convenient to me as a racer as well-particularly for a last minute commitment, but for the most part I'm still willing to lick a stamp and "take my chances." The truth is, this is probably the monetary outlay related to racing least worthy of close anaylsis, all I have to do is walk into a bike shop and I've matched my active fees for the year, which is probably why active can make it work...

Ken

This was 6.77777%. ($180 race--which is ridiculous, but another subject).

All of this is why I'll be doing some bike racing this next year.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"I think it was Dan E. who said on line registration is one of the biggest technological contributions to our sport."

i'm not sure what i said, but what i certainly believe is that it's the main single reason our sport is growing so solidly.

i take a different view, tho, than most of the others posting here. i think for everything active does it's getting a fair price. remember that included in that price is the fee that the credit card merchant bank charges. so if it's 5% (let us say) the bank takes 2% of the total (or so). the other 3% is what active gets for doing the database management. it is no different than what analog registration fulfillment companies used to do, and at a similar price.

my beef is with the RDs. i see no reason why they shouldn't operate like other companies do. you don't buy bag of groceries, assuming it's going to be $X, and then find out after going through checkout that it's really $X + $4 or $6. that's amateurish, and i believe it shows the amateurish approach of RDs that they'll allow that to happen with their races. hence CLM's outrage. they should act as real -- not fake -- business people and behave like big people in grown-up companies. they should say the entry is $85, and that's all-inclusive of registration charges.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

If you figure that the Visa/MC discount fee is 2.5%, then anything they charge on top of that, plus whatever the RD pays them(if anything), goes to active.com for operating expenses and profit.

Some of the races around here(MA) charge a processing fee for using a credit card even if you do send in the application. I don't know what that's all about.

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Here is why Active like ticketmaster is a scam. The service they provided is independent of the cost of the event. Why should I pay a $10 fee for a $50 ticket and a $6 fee for a $30 ticket. I know the credit card company takes a %, but Best Buy, my grocer, my gas station, and virtually everyone else does not surcharge me for using credit. Merchant's take credit because even though they lose a % they are guarateed payment and do not have to handle cash or checks.



As for Active's valuable service. In New England BikeReg.com, does online registration for bike races and guess what, it about $2.00 a race and this is a for profit company. This might be a 10% charge for a 20 dollar race, but it is fair, this is a service worth $1 or $2. It is when you are paying $16 to enter a race just because it costs $400, that you know you are being taken.



Don't worry, people are finally catching on to what the holders of seats on the NYS have been doing for years, taking money off of every transaction for the "service" they provide. Just look what happened to full service brokerage. There are discounters out their now, doing flat fee commissions on home sales, because again the effort involved in selling a house is largely independent of the homes cost, although the people making a fortune as realtors will try to lead you to believe otherwise. Hopefully upstarts like BikeReg.com can stay in the game and prevent a ticketmaster monopoly.

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"When I first had the opportunity to compete in triathlon, it was the chicks and their skimpy race clothing that drew me in. Everyone was so welcoming and the lifestyle so obviously narcissistic. I fed off of that vain energy. To me it is what the sport is all about."

Though PayPal has its own set of problems. They're not a bank so aren't regulated by the usual financial institution rules, and I've heard enough horror stories about PayPal refusing to release hundreds of dollars from people's accounts.

If active were a scam, you would not be registered for the event. Irish travellers are a scam, the Thigh Master is a scam, but Active tells you up front what they are doing and it is up to YOU to decide if you want to proceed. Think of active as an endurance sport waiter, taking your order and serving you your event. In return, you pay a fee, not unlike a gratuity. If you want to do it yourself, guess what? You can!

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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!

I have a choice now. I used to have a choice of going to the box office when buying concert tickets to avoid paying ticketmasters fees. Now most box offices don't keep normal hours, and many are in fact just ticketmaster outlets who charge service fees, so in fact I no longer have a choice. It will likely not be long before all registration is online, and I will be forced to pay for a service I don't want. I am perfectly content downloading race apps off the interent and snail mailing for $0.37 or whatever it costs. Active.com benefits the RD more than the participant, but yet the participant pays for it. I don't see any logic in this.

There are enough services like brokers, real estate agents, car salesmen, etc. who essentially provide no real service except to extract money from my wallet for stuff I can easily do myself.



Okay I need to stop because this is getting a little off topic.

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"When I first had the opportunity to compete in triathlon, it was the chicks and their skimpy race clothing that drew me in. Everyone was so welcoming and the lifestyle so obviously narcissistic. I fed off of that vain energy. To me it is what the sport is all about."