"If a woman does not feel like she is getting your attention, it is likely that she may try to get someone else's attention. Not because she doesn't love you, but because she doesn't feel loved."

This is a game that high school girls play, not mature women. What is wrong with just sitting down and talking to your significant other about how you feel? If your goals in life are not congruent, just split up and go your separate ways. If you want a good, long-lasting relationship, be honest about your needs and wants up front. Don't start up a relationship with someone who is training 20 hours a week if you "need" him/her to be around you, heaping praise and flowers on you all the time. Conversely, find out the other persons needs and wants also, and don't expect to "change" them once you get married or move in together. This is what the dating process is all about. Today, most couples move in and start having sex before they really know each other. Then, the emotional baggage becomes so great, that when they find out they are really incompatible, all hell breaks loose.

My story--After dating/being engaged to several needy, "high-maintenance" types (yes, they were great on the up side, but HELL on the down side), I finally found a mature, sensible, self-assured, financially independent, educated, and beautiful woman who loved me. Unable to believe my good luck, I proposed. That was 25 years ago, and we are still going strong today. Does she have a butt like Fernanda Keller? No, but I didn't fall in love with a butt, or a face, or a pair of tits. I went for the package deal--I accepted her as she was and she me. She is the mother of my 3 boys and together, they are what I do everything for--my job, my time as a Boy Scout leader, and my triathlon. She has the same dedication to the four of us "boys." Do I tell her I love her and give her flowers every day? No--our relationship doesn't need that. We have been through sickness and health, poverty and wealth, even built two houses, without splitting up. We believe if we can get through what we have so far, with God's help, we can get through anything.

My point is, you can build on a solid foundation, but you can't putty over the cracks of a bad foundation with games, roses, and faux "attention."

Just for the record, the A in Florida is not me.

We haven't met, but I am wagering you are a hottie.

Art in Flordia

I try to get out, but they drag me back in.....

There are way too many people in the world to think that we can use a wide brush in drawing them, but I think that some wisdom can be generaliized:

We ALL want to feel special. We may or may not be mature enough to need someone else to feel good about ourselves, but if you are in a good relationship, it should make you feel better. Perhaps you could say 'complete,' if you don't find that too personally demeaning. Just like anything else in life, a good relationship enhances the experience. I think many people go astray by what they consider a good relationship. It ain't a booty call.

Many people DO need to be in a relationship to feel validated, and this goes for both men and women. This is enculturated. My wife and I are currently albatrosses because we don't have kids, and aren't planning a trip to China any time soon. (What IS wrong with us?!?)

Lots of people get into relationships, and don't pay attention to the fact that as the relationship matures, the effort they put into it decreases. Were you spending 20 hours a week working out when you met? Were you spending another 30 hours a week haunting this forum? Or did a lot of that take a back seat while you worked on the relationship?

People change over time. You have to look at the person, and yourself critically. Do you only care about them for who they are now, i.e. a hot party girl, or do you like them for their greater overall traits, which will change less over time? Be honest. You won't be clubbin' forever. You either grow together, or you grow apart. And for most people, it's eaiser to flee and feel sorry for themselves than to actually work at their relationship.

tri_bri2 is on the money about building on a good foundation.

I stand my my post in the original pity party thread: If you can't find happiness alone, you'll never find it with someone else.

Do everything like you mean it, and never try to bullshit yourself.

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If I interpret tri2fly's girl's message as 'don't forget your loved one needs your time too', then I can agree with her up to that point. But as it was written it sounded a bit one-sided. I know for a fact that my husband needs my attention too; if work or the kids or the house or whatever start to take too much of my attention, he suffers for it, so I try to focus every day on what's most improtant to me, namely our life together, and do the things that let him know I appreciate him. It helps keep things in perspective. It can be as simple as stopping what I'm doing to really listen to him when he tells me about his day. He does the same for me, and so much more. The training and stuff is not so much of a problem for us because we both do it, although an inordinate share of the other stuff that needs to be done tends to fall on my shoulders. But he does so much in the way of keeping our relationship fresh, that I think it's a fair trade, and I never miss a day thanking God for bringing me to this point with this man. Six years of marriage have taught me that it isn't about what has he done for me lately, it's what can I do this moment to stay focused on what's good and permanent.

The other point I took exception to is that it would never occur to me in tough times to look to get my needs met elsewhere. I'm in this for the long haul - looking elsewhere simply isn't an option. Marriage or a relationship is a long term investment, you can't leave yourself an out when the immediate return isn't to your liking. You need that confidence in each other in order to make the investment in the first place.

And finally, A in Fl registered anonymously in order to take a dump on this forum and one of its members. That's pretty chickensh*t and doesn't merit any more bandwidth wasted on his or her vitriole.

I hope my thoughts resonate with other tri women out there, if only to show Tom D. there is hope once he comes out of his healing process!

Having been dumped 2 years ago by my wife of 17 years, I now would almost completely agree with tri2fly's girl's diagnosis as it certainly applied to me.

One caveat - emails are routinely monitored at many workplaces. You might want to keep that in mind when composing your love notes. People have been fired for both their surfing and emailing habits.

I'm responding to several posts in this thread:

1. Tri2Fly'sGirl, are you sure you're not my wife? I had this exact (well... almost) discussion with her in July. She made exactly the same points you are making. And... it's a darn good point.
   
   I know that when I find something I enjoy as much as I have enjoyed triathlon, it tends to consume me to the exclusion of other things, including Ms. Steveperx. She was angry that I was spending all my time on triathlon, and very little with her, while I saw her demands as trying to convince me I shouldn't be training and racing as much. We were both wrong. I was spending plenty of time with her, and she didn't want me to stop racing and training. The problem was that out "together time" primarily consisted of being in the same room while reading, watching TV or going to dinner when SHE suggested it. I wasn't making any effort to plan things at all. I wasn't the one who initiated doing things. Although I often said "I love you," I wasn't taking any action that showed it. Once I understood what she wanted from me, it's been bliss ever since. I don't have to buy expensive presents all the time,I don't have to bring home flowers all the time, and I don't have to deal with a "high maintenance" wife. All I have to do is every once in a while, ask her out for a "date" and plan it, or send an "I love you" e-mail, or cook dinner for her. It's not something that takes away from my training and it's not hard to do, especially if you want you spouse/mate to know, without the words, that you're think of her/him, and you find her/hom desirable.
   
   For those of you who have trashed Tri2Fly'sGirl for her point, I think you've missed it. She is not saying you need to always be thinking of your spouse/mate, and that you're a heartless, selfish cad if you don't. She's merely pointing out that women want to feel wanted, and one thing that almost always works is letting them know how much you care about them and that you think about them without saying it. She's not saying you have to do x,y and z every day/week/month. When you start doing that, then it does lose its magic, and you're back in the same old boat, because it has become mundane and routine. But for God's sake, realize that by picking up an "I love you" card, or buying flowers once in a while when you're at the grocery store, you can let your spouse know how much you care. For those of you who think this is an imposition, or that this is "high school" behavior, I respectfully submit that either you just don't get it, or or you're too self-centered to care.
   
2. A in Fl, that was soooo not cool.
   
3. A point few others seem to make. It works both ways. I don't want to feel like I'm getting mixed messages any more than Mrs. Steveperx. If I feel like her actions say she doesn't find me desirable, but I'm getting the verbal "I love you's" it ticks me off, and I call her on it.

...my $0.02

Steve

you are a prick [probably a small one at that]

I'll hang with Cathy any day over an asshole such as yourself

Eric

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"on your Left"

i think Steve is right on the money. it's taken a long time for me to realize that my 36 year old, mother of two's "point system" is totally different from what it was with girlfriends in their early 20s. in a marriage/partnership you have to understand that sometimes your spouse places as much or more value on your switching the clothes from the washer to the dryer as she does on your bringing home flowers. not that the two are mutually exclusive, of course, but the signs that you care and that you value the person are maybe more subtle in a high quality long term relationship. maybe that's a little bit of what ironclm was saying by pointing out the distinction between a "girl" and a "woman" (which, tangentially, came perilously close to quoting Britney lyrics).

all of which ultimately relates to triathlon because no matter how hard you try and squeeze workouts in when they don't impact your spouse or family (i.e., on lunch breaks or in the wee hours while they sleep) there will always be those long rides or runs that can only happen on the weekend or with some compromise by your spouse/family. IMHO, setting up a zero sum equation that pits your relationship against your training is the first step in the end of the relationship. neither the "think of me naked while you're posting on Slowtwitch" nor the "if you don't like my training find another partner" approaches are going to work if you want any kind of long-term quality relationship.

ok. that's my $.02. We really need an MFCC to join this board.

I think A in Fl is just jealous. Ironclm you must have beaten that person in a race and he/she can not get over it.

I completely agree with steveperx's post. I think many people put their own spin on tri2fly's girl's comments and didn't really get the point. My experiences and conversations with women are almost exactly in line with what tri2fly's girl said. Obviously, many people here(including me) have made generalizations. I think one thing we forget sometimes is that men and women are different. I think that many of the relationship problems we have stem from the fact that we expect our partner to have the same needs we do and to feel the same way we would about a given situation. I think the important thing is for each of us to understand what our partners needs are, and to determine if we are willing/able to support those needs before things get too far.

This is what the fight is all about? You have GOT to be kidding me folks...I searched and searched for some nasty post that was out there - this is all I find. Come on now...who cares...and like ANYONE looks good in a race photo?

I tell you what, I dont know that I have seen any woman at any tri (participating) that I would not be willing to check the oil for (>>wink<< >>wink<<)...granted, there are a few butter faces out there but hey...the willingness to get out and race is far more attractive than any "body" could portray.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Gaahhh, I think I'm more confused with women now than I was before I read this post (and that's saying something.)
-Ladies wan't to be the center of you attention.
-Ladies want to be free and not have you obsess over them.
-Tell them their sexy and you like how they look naked (tried that, got slapped)
-Ladies need to be held close to you.
-Ladies need to be independent.
-Dump your girlfriends so you can do an Ironman.
-Do an Ironman with your girlfriend.
-ect...ect....ect......

Good grief, the world is spinning and I can't make peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches right. Why is Oprah fat? When will the Cubs win the World Series? Is life as we know it all a hoax......
.......I guess some questions can never be answered.

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I don't work here, I just live here

No, I think you're pretty well on top of it.

As for you Record9ti, no checking anyone's oil until you figure out what you want to do with your life. For now you'll have to settle for wondering what's under the hood. BTW, I do hope you're coming out of your funk.

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<<Is life as we know it all a hoax...... >>

Welcome to the Matrix, Neo.

all i have to say about tri girls...

im a baby (19) and going up Richter Pass this year, i saw some of the best legs ive ever seen in my entire life... women in their 30's-40's with much much hotter legs than anyone my age...

its a crazy sport

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

"women in their 30's-40's with much much hotter legs than anyone my age... "

I'm a baby too (16) and I agree completely with your statement. It's sad and funny at the same time. =)

I'll share a secret with you: Up to about 30 everything is free. After that, you have to work for it.

Since I got into tri, I have found that the fittest looking people I have ever met are in their 40's. As opposed to the meat popsicles I see in Boston every day.

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Ms. tri2fly's girl let me start by saying glad to have you on the forum and you are wonderful for giving us your point of view. That being said please tell me your 25 or younger. What you wrote is the reason I never dated girls in my high school. If the attention of a man is that important then you women really need a life.

I say I hope your under 25 because if I'm thirty and if my marriage crashes and women around my age think like that, then I'm out. I'm sorry I'll start believing in God and become a monk.

What the hell are women really thinking. "Pay attention to me! Get away why can't you give me space! Come back!"

Is it really worth the effort to be more than friends with women? I don't think so. If my love life takes the dive I'm going to be gay. Not Will and Grace gay either. I'm talking Leatherman Gay Pride Parade gay.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

cj,

you're great! a little drastic, but great nonetheless.

turning gay might be a little step too far though... just stop caring... thats kind of where im at right now.
im sure that at some point i will care again, but right now...the thought is "meh...whatever" ive got other shit to worry about rather than stress about females.

now, ive gotta tell this story. i met a guy last year while i was down in montreal for a party. We were talking about harsh breakups, and one of the other guys in the room was bitching. The guy i was talking to, all he said was...stop whining. My girlfriend dumps me (i cant remember how, it was pretty harsh though), and starts DATING MY SISTER. can you imagine going home for christmas to see your ex and your sister romantically involved??? imagine being the one who turned that person gay?

cj, just make sure that if she really breaks your heart, she knows that shes the reason you turned gay ;)



good luck! :P



-=kevin=-

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

I think there are a lot of good relationship tips here to help a busy triathlete with his/her relationship. Like someone said earlier, everyone is different, you just have to sort through them to find something that will work for you. I'm lucky to have a wife who also competes, but even that is not always the perfect solution. Sometimes we struggle to share workout time (swim time is good, hard fast bike rides not so good etc.). So while I may not train quite the same way I did when I was single (and my race results may have suffered a bit), the trade off is I get to share the lifestyle with her, travel to races together, and I think enjoy the sport more.

Since I think I may be a little older than most of the posters on this thread, I might venture to offer an opinion to the younger guys who are frustrated by the women they have dated at this point in thier lives--I have been there as well--be patient. I agree with another post that young women (and probably young men to but I won't admit it) just do not know what the he11 they want! You just have to wait untill they realize that the captain of the football team is really a self centered jerk and will be sitting around drinking beer and getting fat in a few years. CST

tim....i was the captain of the football team ;)

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

Interesting post and thread. :P