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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]
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Well I gave it a shot today... no specific workout in mind when I got the pool so I went with an easy 400 to warmup (4x100) and then into 20x50. It was a SCM pool and I’m used to yards so I had to make up some numbers on the spot. I decided to use 57 seconds as my cut off. I started in the 53 and 54 range and settled in around 54 and 55. About half way through I lowered the cutoff to 56 in my head and it was crazy obvious when I went over that. I could feel my technique going to hell. That was around lap 16 or 17. I sat one out and finished my set. Overall I’m pretty happy with that. I think I’ll stick with this interval when I do 50’s next week as 55 might be tough to get to double digits. It was nice to feel like I was working hard in the pool again. I’ve missed that sinking feeling (no pun intended) when the fatigue sets in earlier and earlier with every interval and you just know you’re going to be in trouble.
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [SteveM] [ In reply to ]
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Sure. I do not get improvements in the swim on 3x. I need at least 4x, and 5x(or even 6x) is better. I try not to be out of the water for more than 48 hours....even if that's just a recovery swim, it makes a difference. Ymmv.

My prototypical week is:

Mon:
Lunch: easy recovery run
Evening: usrpt 50s swim

Tue:
lunch: medium run
Evening: 5x5 vo2max bike

Wed:
Lunch: easy medium run
Evening: recovery swim

Thur:
Morning: usrpt 100s
Lunch: mile repeats (or tempo) run

Fri:
AM: recovery swim
Lunch : easy recovery run

Sat:
Am: Usrpt 25s
Long bike with 2x20s SST
Medium run

Sun: easy recovery run

My idea is to enter each USRPT swim as fresh as possible. Then do whatever hard run/bike within the 12 hours or so... And leave time to recover before the next USRPT swim.

My recovery swims are typically:
3x300 (30s) swim with fins, kick with fins, swim
6x50 (20s) descend
4x50 kick (no fins)
100ez

I also like to be sure and swim the day before a USRPT day... I find I swim worse after a day off....and better the day after a recovery swim.
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for this thread as incorporating these concepts into my training is producing results.

Background; I’m a former freestyle sprinter than can no longer sprint, now 47. I can cruise at 1:35/100y all day, but struggle doing 10x100 on 1:30 sendoff. Recently swam a 1500m TT at a local master meet, coming in at 23:14 (1:25/100y). Focusing on Olympic distance in 2019.

My three MS for the week:
20x100 on 1:20, 20” rest
40x50 on :40, 10”
80x25 on :20, 5”

Easy 100 midway through the 50s and 25s to keep my focus.

I felt the fatigue during the last 500 of each set. The 100s were the hardest, but I touched everything on time (subject to deck clock sweep and fatigue fog bias) and left on time every time.

Am I on the right track? What should I do differently?

Scott

"I was tired, so I shut off my brain and my body finished without me"
~KFU, age 13
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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The last time I really buried myself in fatigue it was a swim that finally broke me.

Running BarryP style + TrainerRoad doesn't leave a lot of margin for quality swimming. 1 quality +2 'just get to the pool' has been about it.

Given your recent 100/100 post, what's your thoughts on usrpt frequency & fatigue? I'm somewhat thinking I should treat it like a vo2 session on the bike, ie. One or two per week at most unless I seriously trim bike/run volume.
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [SteveM] [ In reply to ]
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From an overall fatigue standpoint, I haven't found usrpt style swimming to be difficult to manage. It hasnt ever impacted my ability to bike or run even later the same day. It's quite typical for me to do usrpt 30x100s in the morning and then do a long run, or 4x mile repeats run, or 5x5 style vo2 bike session later in the day. That's my normal Thursday.

Those run or bike sessions are never compromised by the swim earlier in the day. However, the reverse order will seriously compromise my swimming. I need to leave 24-36 hrs between a hard/long run/bike session and the next usrpt swim.

So, yes I totally agree that you need to manage run/bike stress to leave yourself fresh enough to swim well. But, the total fatigue of the usrpt sets isn't a big deal to recover from and manage through the week.

ETA: What I think killed my swim over the last 6 weeks was doing all the doubles, as well as taking NO days off. My reaction to a poor swim set was to back off on the swimming... Maybe cut the set short... Then skip the next recovery swim day hoping to recover for the following usrpt set. So, swim volume suffered, and I started missing quality sessions too (or cutting them short). I swam 40kyds in January and, was on pace for closer to 50kyds before it started going to shit. But, I only managed 25kyds in Feb. My usrpt paces have fallen off almost linearly with my drop in average volume.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Mar 2, 19 13:22
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, that's really helpful.

Generally I've reserved mornings for running, but I know that I swim a whole lot better if I'm fresher... Plus if I feel like I'm pushing the edge it's a lot easier (for me) to ride/run easy than swim.
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Am I on the right track? What should I do differently?

Scott
My three MS for the week:
20x100 on 1:20, 20” rest
40x50 on :40, 10”
80x25 on :20, 5”

I would say that those 3 sets are basically the same sets, I think the goal of USRPT is to up the pace as the distance goes down, not the rest. Nothing wrong with what you did, just that they all will only reinforce that 1;20 pace, not build on it. Maybe keep the ;20 second rest on all, but go 38's on the 50's, and 18/17 on the 25's. Might triple up and get those 1;20 100's to feel a lot easier...
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Variety is the spice of life. Echoing what Monty wrote, it’s not all about just doing the same exact pace at different distances. You can swim significantly faster on the 25s versus the 100s. On the 25s, you should be getting almost 1:1 rest. And for the rest you just want to add 20 seconds to whatever your hold pace is. That is an important feature of the sets.

You’ll also find that if you do the same exact sets over and over again you won’t see as much gains if you varied up what andnhow you are doing it. Check out Sprint Salo for a little more information on this.

Hope this helps,

Tim

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
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Re: USRPT and Triathlon Swim Training [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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so folks i have a great device to do this type of training. no need to stop and look at watch (screws stroke up) or look at wall clock guessing time. I am using marlin platysens which gives audio feed back to me in the pool on every lap. As soon as my lap is over race pace, I stop, rest and try to get back to pace again.

https://platysens.com/marlin/


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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