We sold Seven for a year or two and enjoyed working with Bob Jenny who has since moved on. My personal opinion is that their workmanship is very good but the geometry and design of many of the bikes we got back left much to be desired. While I know many Seven owners will disagree with me on this, my impression was Seven would build anything in any dimensions. That is good and bad. We got back some really weird handling bikes from them. They fit the rider very well- perfectly in fact. They just didn't "fit" the road too well. IMHO Seven is what you get when you only build a bike with the rider's body dimensions in mind. The fit is always there, the handling can be the give-away. I didn't like that aout them. Pesonally, I woud prefer an excellent fit and position on a "stock" Litespeed (if they have a "stock" geometry that fits you that is) with proven handling characteristics than being the first "test pilot" on some custom dimension and geometry frame that has never been ridden before and didn't even exist except on a CAD screen. In my book, custom geometry is a risky proposition only to be used in the most extreme or unusual fit circumstances- that's my opinion based on my expereince selling around 30 Sevens.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Thanks for the reply. I have read that concern (maybe from you) many times before and it would seem to have merit. I hope that Seven would consider the bikes handling when working with you on the frame dimensions. Haven't they been doing this for a while?

Have you had better success with any other custom frames?

It's appropriate to temper my comments, without waffling, with the following comments:

Often time customers are their own worst enemy. Seven simply makes what the order form specifies. When customers ask for weird things (and many Seven customers do) Seven makes them. It is not Seven's "fault" that their customers occasionally want a ridiculously short top tube or their handlebars level with their saddle. Some customers fancy themselves frame designers and "know" what they need. Take my word for it, after fitting several thousand people myself I thought I "knew" exactly what frame geometry I needed. I carefully plotted it out and planned it out, simulated it on our Serotta Size Cycle and double checked everything. Tom Demerly, the (sic) "Master Fitter" was desiging his own custom frame for himself after years of experience: What could be more perfect? What could go wrong? Surely, this would the utter manifestation of cycling perfection. The perfect marriage of superior intellect, perfect fit and performance. When I got the frame back and built it up it butt-ass, dick in the dirt, just plain sucked donkey-dick. I am a bike fitter. Not a frame designer. I learned the hard way they are not the same. The bike is only as good as the numbers you give them- and even if you give them good fit numbers it may still be really weird. Remember- no one has ever tested your custom geometry until the day you ride it.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"It is not Seven's "fault" that their customers occasionally want a ridiculously short top tube or their handlebars level with their saddle."

true, but then they shouldn't find it odd or disappointing when you (nicely) or me (not as nicely) basically say that triathletes probably ought not to consider a custom seven (at least imho).

if seven doesn't understand the fundamentals of tri bike fit, and i see no basis for why i should think they do, then what they're saying is, "we'll build you a $6000 bike, but it's all on you if it doesn't work, and when it comes to tri bikes we're just the welders."

you'd like to think a custom builder is a sort of backstop, a second line of defense against the execution of a bad idea. it seems to me seven is like a 21 dealer who just lets you split a pair of tens without telling you how stupid that is, except it's worse, because seven itself doesn't really know if it's stupid or not.

now, none of this has anything to do with road race bikes. they're a very, very good builder of custom road bikes. but i'm sort of harsh in that i think they ought to earn the tri bike business -- custom or production -- and i need some evidence to suggest that they know what a tri bike maker ought to know before i can recommend them as a tri bike builder.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yup. True dat.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

And actually, now that I think about it, I have customers ask me to ridiculous crap all the time. Like the guys who want to buy a P3 and stack 5cm of headset spacers on the steer tube. When I tell them "I'm not going to do that, that bike is representative of our store and that is wrong, plus, it isn't really safe." When I tell the guy that he occasionally leaves the store in a huff and tells people I am a "snob", "elitist", "egotistical" or I smell bad. Don't get me wrong: I am all those things. But it isn't because I refuse to wreck a nice bike with a rotten fit.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Well, it sounds like I should look elsewhere. I am not trying to do anything ridiculous with my frame dimensions. I am not that smart/stupid to think that I could out-design an expert. I was hoping that a custom frame builder could use the dimensions of my old bike along with an explanation of the ride characteristics that I want to achieve and build me my dream bike. Sure sounds nice, doesn't it. My old bike fit very well and I am using it as the guide for my new bike. Unfortunately, my old bike broke and I have to get a new one. I don't want to go back to my same bike because, well variety is the spice of life. I work with a great bike shop that keeps me in line and makes sure I don't do anything crazy. They have plenty of bikes to choose from, but the idea of something different and unique is enticing. I appreciate all the comments and saving me some time and $.

Ok I've done some research and here is the truth whole truth and the don't argue facts. I talked to the guys at my lbs and a few Seven owners who where standing around and this is what i got. If you get a good measurment and stick to Sevens ideas of how to build your bike your golden. If you fuck around and try to be smoove and know it all and change the set up your geting a crappy bike. As far as tri fit goes I just got a email from the company saying they have researched and improved there tri fit. All the specs for thier tri stock frames are on the site. Take a look. So Sevens are good bikes if you let Seven do thier thing. As far as the price goes i see no reason why anyone not making a living on the bike needs to pay more than $2000 for a bike, including pedals.



I think the brain tumor is coming back do the fact I'm posting again. Then again this site might cause tumors. Dan you will be hearing from my lawyer.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

You and my wife agree on how much I should spend on a new bike - but what she doesn't know won't hurt her. I would be much more comfortable going ahead with Seven if I were buying a road bike. There seems to be plenty of satisfied customers there. I am curious how well their skills transfer over to a TT frame. Did any of your contacts have experience on a TT Seven?

I found some info on web.


top tube seat tube head tube
Guru 57 57 20.5

Seven 56.8 57 n/a

These where on 57 cm triathlon models.

say bud, hate to mention it, since i do so often...but if you want a sweet custom bike with coolness and cache to spare, built of the best tubing yet to date by dudes who will do ya custom and steer ya right and also build for the winningest trigeek on the planet give the crew at waterford a call. 2K will get you a new custom s3 w-ford, sneak the parts past the wife ( details, details....) and there ya go.