on the home page now. sorry for the delay. this hawaii time crunch thing. had to finish I'bike coverage on the plane to kona. MAN there are a lot of people here. must be the 25th anniversary thing.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan I just read your report on interbike. Nice job.But just one thing.Why no word on the P2K or Dual?

Dave

I couldn't make it to I-bike this year so thanks for the excellent report, Dan. It looks like I'll be shopping for a new handlebar system next year.

"Why no word on the P2K or Dual?"

in a way, i guess i see it as a sign of integrity and confidence that a bike company just leaves a product alone when it's "finished." these are both finished products. they're at the zenith of their respective designs, and there's nothing to do with these bikes, except to scrap them when they don't check at the cash register anymore, and replace them with whatever's next.

the flip side is, they're great bikes, but there's nothing really to write. nothing that you don't already know.

now, i'm CERTAIN that gerard, who's over here in kona somewhere roaming around, will reply to this and say, NOT TRUE, we've done THIS and we've done THAT and, okay, he'll have valid points re these two models. but what KHS has done is new -- for that brand -- and what the other companies have done is new (for them at least). there's only so much space you want to devote to an interbike story before people get weary of reading it, and i wanted to keep it to the most newsworthy stuff. that's why i didn't say much about Felt or Syntace. they're already fine products, and other than a thing here and there (felt's carbon rears) you've been there / seen that. this doesn't mean that a P2K or an S22 isn't a fine bike. it's a sort of a testament to their value that i don't mention them. i mention QR's tequilo because it WAS a dog last year, and this year it's not. when ultegra doesn't change, no need to mention it. likewise the dual.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Gary,

Are you gonna post the picture of the HED designed TT bike? I'm dying to see it!

If you don't know what I'm talking about:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...D%20TT%20bike;#49084

BTW, your site is awsome and a great resource for cyclists everywhere.

E-Z

"Zipp and HED as top carbon wheel mfgrs..., but where's Corima on your list Dan?"

more precisely, i used to say that there are two and a half wheel makers, corima being the half. i guess i just don't see them making forward progress at nearly the same rate as the rest of the wheel world. obviously i'm leaving others out, most notably mavic, and to a lesser extent campy. and if it's road race, that's one thing. but strictly time trialing, i think zipp and hed have separated themselves from the rest of the field.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Tell Gerard if he ever "fixes" or "improves" the P3 (in anything either than the most minimal way), I'll personally drive up to Toronto and cuff him. :-)

Was HED showing any HED 3D discs, or is that still a sore issue with them?

Also, any comments on the HED time trial frame that several people have been touting on this board, I cant find any information on the bike. I know that there was a re-bagged Javelin last year that HED was marketing briefly.

Thanks



Gary

"Was HED showing any HED 3D discs"

i didn't see it there and while i don't know i'm going to guess it's on the back burner or dead in the water.

the frame was no javelin, but wasn't a lotus either. i don't know what he was doing with that frame. nice frame, but hey, steve's not in the bike business. i woudn't hold my breath for a hed bike.

what WAS creating a bit of a stir, tho, was the ABG wheels. steve made some trips down to chattanooga during the winter and taught them how to make their own carbon wheels for their own bikes. they learned well. they're badged under the REAL DESIGN name, the company i bought in '98 when at saucony. ABG got it when they bought saucony's bike division. if you look at that pic of the QR ti bike on my i'bike coverage you'll see the wheels. they're basically hed jets that ABG is now making down there.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

If you look at Real Design's website: http://www.real-design.com/ , the wheels look like J2's or Jet 40's.

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http://irondad06.blogspot.com/

http://irondad.blogspot.com/

I posted this before and maybe I'm still missing something, but I still don't see what's in it for steve/annie in the long term in sharing their knowlege with ABG...even if they receive a consulting fee/liscense arrangement I don't follow how HED benefits in the long term unless they're looking to be acquired?

Yes, Zipp does a similar thing in rebranding their wheels for other co's, but their brand and volume is a bit stronger than HED and in this case, I don't belive this is a re-branding scenario?

"I still don't see what's in it for steve/annie in the long term in sharing their knowlege with ABG"

1. money.
2. hed doesnn't make that kind of wheel anymore.
3. ABG isn't going into the aftermarket wheel biz.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

it is easy to see the influences of hed in the real design wheel. the spokes are anchored to the aluminum rim like the alps. the shape is not a simple v but bulged like the old cx and current 404. this shape is patented by hed and zipp i believe. it's a good idea to make money on ideas. good move by hed.

frank