I'd say the best position depends on the particular rider and the course they are riding on. Personally, I like the looks of Larsen's position the most, but I'm a "forward" thinking kind of guy.

My "guess" is that Larsen's position is somehow resulting in the best aero/power trade off.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I've always thought Deboom looks more perfectly fit to his bike than any other rider. He just looks so relaxed.

Bjorn looks pretty good in the solo shot -- relaxed and comfortable (and faster than all hell, too).

It will be an interesting Kona...

Steves got my vote, particularly with no climbs. He could always move back on the saddle for climbing, though.

Bjorn looks good - according to Cobb he should angle his arms up a bit. Not sure that this is always true - way too many top time trialists race this way and a lot of them hit the wind tunnel.

Tim would be better if he could duck his head a bit.

On a general note most of them could benefit from tucking their bags and bottles into a more aero position - look at Steve, I cant tell what that is behind his saddle, but that can't be good.

Larsen looks fastest, but man, I can't imagine having to run after 180k in that position. DeBoom, Widoff and the solo Bjorn look very comfortable, if not supremely aero.

The others, as Bjorn pointed out in an earlier thread, almost certainly have a reason for their position or are so much faster than me that I have no right to comment.

Static shots are always a bit of a crap shoot in terms of determining how "good" a riders position is. Also, bike fit/position is a very persoanl thing and what works for one ride does not for another.

However, that being said, I have always liked Tim DeBooms position/look on the bike - neutral and relaxed. He's not one extreme or the next and hey, bottom line is that it works - his record at IMH and at other races over the last few years has been extraordinarily consistant.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Well, if we were using Empfields guidelines on tri bike fit as the standard we could very well put DeBoom in there as a model because he is almost exactly conforming to the 90 degree angles rule.

As much as Bjorn's position has been talked about for being so radical yet producing such impressive output I think it needs to be questioned in the light of his Saturdays NZ run meltdown. Could it be that he needs to slow down, change position, increase cadence, etc? But such a disparity in bike vs run performance begs the question.

I also wanted to throw this one in there:



and I know he is riding even lower now

"Could it be that he needs to slow down, change position, increase cadence, etc?"

One could also argue that he needs to speed up on the bike. If he had ridden 12 minutes faster, maybe he would have won. Some guys are naturally better cyclists than runners, and vice versa. When I start breaking 8:45, I will offer criticism and advice to Bjorn. Until that time I will keep quiet as the guy just beat my PR by over an hour.

look at all them bikes with Campagnolo!!!!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Campy has to do something with all the extra money it gets from charging so much for their pretty parts. ;-)

"As much as Bjorn's position has been talked about for being so radical yet producing such impressive output I think it needs to be questioned in the light of his Saturdays NZ run meltdown"

Do you kn ow for sure there was a meltdown? Do you know his stand alone marathon PR? One could make the exact opposite argument: "In light of his impressive run split, after such a fast ride, his position is obviously working for him". Also, remember that it is his 1st Ironman completion.

You know, there is ALWAYS a cost for quality!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Ironmanlive was saying that they expected a 3:05 marathon from Bjorn, so, although it wasn't exactly a 'meltdown', he didn't perform at the level expected.

Personally, I think it's going to be hard for anyone to win an IM with a > 3:00 marathon. Considering that most of the top 'runners' are expected to go 2:40 - 2:45, a 'bike specialist' is going to have to put 20+ minutes on them and still be able to run afterwards.

The true 'all rounders' are going to be all around 50', 4:50, 2:50. Cam fast a little faster on the swim and run which gave him the win. Clas had a slow swim (relatively), but made most if it up on the run, but still got 2nd. Bjorn blistered the swim and bike, but was way off the mark on the run, which cost him dearly. Gordo was a little off the pace during the swim and bike, but a solid run kept him in the top 5. Jacobs was the fish, but trailed in the bike and run.

Another thing to consider is who was the hero of the day and left the bigger impression. If I am a sponsor I think I would just as well have my name on Bjorn's singlet as Mr. Brown's. Bjorn was out front for most of the day getting the camera time and he is the one we're all talking about now.

So who was the real "winner" on the day? I think both Bjorn and Cameron Brown had to come out of the race with smiles on their faces.

Clas too, afer that amazing run. I think the top 3 all were very impressive. Cam for the overall race, Bjorn for the bike, and Clas for the run.

Gordo should be proud too. He helped shape two of the top 3, and had a splendid 4th place himself.

Look at the guys that can ride 4:30 or there about. Most of them can run under 3 hours. What I am trying to get to is that as good as his bike ride was there is a big disparity between it and his run. The other triathletes at that level that ride close to that time can run much faster than he did.

Hasn't it been said again and again, that your IM run is a product of your bike pacing?

Furthermore, haven't kick ass riders like Hellriegel and Zack purposely slowed down their bike so that they can run better=faster?

"Furthermore, haven't kick ass riders like Hellriegel and Zack purposely slowed down their bike so that they can run better=faster?"

I like Zack and Helldrive, but their bikes have slowed and their results haven't gotten any better. When is the last time they won a major race (Roth, IMH, etc.)? Maybe their results were really better when they were biking harder. They certainly garnered more media attention then, and that's pretty important to sponsors.

Stadler:

RACE PL. DATE SWIM BIKE RUN TOTAL IRONMAN HAWAII 4 OCT-2003 00:52:44 04:33:40 03:02:50 08:32:47 IRONMAN GERMANY 6 JUL-2003 00:51:41 04:36:16 03:01:39 08:33:07 IRONMAN JAPAN 4 MAY-2002 00:56:41 04:59:24 02:58:54 08:54:59 LAGUNA PHUKET TRIATHLON 3 NOV-2001 00:29:20 01:23:51 00:42:26 02:35:37 IRONMAN HAWAII 4 OCT-2001 00:56:14 04:45:13 03:05:57 08:49:43 IRONMAN AUSTRALIA 1 APR-2001 00:49:41 04:42:26 02:58:16 08:30:23 IRONMAN HAWAII 3 OCT-2000 00:52:52 04:35:15 02:56:01 08:26:45 IRONMAN AUSTRALIA 1 APR-2000 00:49:33 04:42:34 02:58:30 08:30:37 IRONMAN HAWAII 15 OCT-1999 00:53:06 04:40:59 03:08:20 08:45:57 IRONMAN SWITZERLAND 4 AUG-1999 00:55:32 04:47:00 03:05:46 08:50:04 IRONMAN SWITZERLAND 5 AUG-1998 00:53:36 04:56:11 02:50:31 08:42:51

THOMAS HELLRIEGEL

RACE PL. DATE SWIM BIKE RUN TOTAL IRONMAN HAWAII 11 OCT-2003 00:50:47 04:38:53 03:02:58 08:37:46 IRONMAN GERMANY 5 JUL-2003 00:49:03 04:31:14 02:58:28 08:22:32 IRONMAN LANZAROTE 1 MAY-2003 00:50:52 05:07:46 02:53:47 08:56:44 IRONMAN HAWAII 4 OCT-2002 00:53:23 04:34:52 03:05:47 08:36:59 QUELLE CHALLENGE ROTH 3 JUL-2002 00:51:30 04:24:05 03:02:47 08:21:53 IRONMAN AUSTRALIA 4 APR-2002 00:50:03 04:41:46 03:04:33 08:36:22 IRONMAN HAWAII 3 OCT-2001 00:55:35 04:47:42 03:01:25 08:47:40 TRIATHLON DE GERARDMER 4 SEP-2001 03:48:12 IRONMAN EUROPE 5 JUL-2001 00:49:01 04:43:26 02:55:54 08:31:48 IRONMAN HAWAII 5 OCT-2000 00:51:53 04:38:36 02:59:58 08:33:35 IRONMAN EUROPE 2 JUL-2000 00:49:13 04:31:10 02:57:27 08:21:30 IRONMAN NEW ZEALAND 1 MAR-2000 00:51:48 04:36:05 02:51:12 08:22:46 IRONMAN HAWAII 6 OCT-1999 00:53:07 04:38:38 02:54:03 08:28:49 IRONMAN LAKE PLACID 1 AUG-1999 00:49:31 04:43:21 02:59:01 08:36:59 IRONMAN EUROPE 2 JUN-1999 00:48:57 04:16:04 02:49:52 07:57:50 IRONMAN HAWAII 8 OCT-1998 00:52:08 04:41:45 03:08:34 08:45:21 IRONMAN EUROPE 6 JUL-1998 00:48:14 04:39:22 02:56:25 08:28:10 IRONMAN HAWAII 1 OCT-1997 00:53:08 04:47:57 02:51:56 08:33:01 IRONMAN EUROPE 4 JUL-1997 00:49:39 04:14:45 02:52:57 07:57:21 IRONMAN AUSTRALIA 2 APR-1997 00:48:38 04:36:16 02:48:06 08:13:00 IRONMAN HAWAII 2 OCT-1996 00:54:22 04:24:50 02:46:55 08:06:07 IRONMAN CANADA 1 AUG-1996 08:09:53 IRONMAN HAWAII 2 OCT-1995 00:55:17 04:29:37 02:58:05 08:22:59 IRONMAN LANZAROTE 1 OCT-1995 00:50:57 04:47:03 02:57:37 08:35:37 IRONMAN EUROPE 2 JUL-1995 00:51:13 04:21:14 02:57:42 08:10:09

STEVE LARSEN

RACE PL. DATE SWIM BIKE RUN TOTAL XTERRA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 5 OCT-2003 00:21:42 01:31:02 00:46:06 02:38:50 XTERRA USA CHAMPIONSHIP 2 SEP-2003 00:23:10 01:31:4 00:40:50 02:35:43 HALF VINEMAN 2 AUG-2003 03:54:16 XTERRA CENTRAL CHAMPIONSHIP 1 JUL-2003 00:14:03 01:11:45 00:40:52 02:06:40 XTERRA WEST CHAMPIONSHIP 2 JUN-2003 00:22:28 01:12:04 00:48:22 02:22:54 IRONMAN NEW ZEALAND 6 MAR-2003 00:54:11 04:26:45 03:21:19 08:45:32 QUELLE CHALLENGE ROTH 6 JUL-2002 00:56:30 04:31:24 03:11:00 08:41:35 CALIFORNIA HALF IRONMAN 10 MAY-2002 00:26:59 02:07:12 01:21:54 03:57:30 WILDFLOWER 9 MAY-2002 00:26:24 02:19:46 01:29:50 04:17:46 IRONMAN HAWAII 9 OCT-2001 01:00:45 04:33:32 03:19:09 08:56:28 IRONMAN LAKE PLACID 1 JUL-2001 00:57:09 04:33:23 02:56:53 08:33:11 HALF VINEMAN 1 JUL-2001 00:30:32 02:07:31 01:14:42 03:55:57 NISSAN XTERRA EAST CHAMPIONSHIP 4 JUN-2001 00:13:43 01:15:59 00:33:10 02:02:51 WILDFLOWER 4 MAY-2001 00:27:50 02:14:06 01:25:00 04:11:14

Sorry if the post is too big

Interesting points. What matters in the end is the time to complete the 3 legs. What I am trying to say is that it may not be fair to say that his run was slow compared to his ride. Why not give him more credit and believe that he knows how to pace himself so that the overall time be the fastest possible? We know for sure that he could have ridden slower, but it is not so clear to me that he would have made up that time on the run. Again, that is his first finish at the distance. The racers you are comparing him to have multiple Ironmen in the legs. It will surely be interesting to follow Bjorn in his next races and see if whether he changes his tactics. I wish he can keep his bike speed and improve his run!

I hope Bjorn won't mind me sharing the following...

He did no decent training in Nov/Dec, was sick most of the time.

He only managed six weeks of effective training pre-IMNZ due to an illness that he got on Epic Camp. However, the weeks that he did manage were very impressive.

He simply rode the bike, normal training effort, no ego, no desire to beat the course record.

I've shared my run training philosophy with him. Based on our discussions, he chose to modify his approach but, with only, six weeks of preparation, his body hasn't yet had time to adapt. Note, I don't coach Mister A. He deserves all the credit for his accomplishments. We simply share ideas back and forth -- just like good training buddies should.

We believe that his bike position has nothing to do with his run performance -- the speculation on this comes from people that know nothing about his training methods and background.

If he was like most new IMers, he'd be so far down the field that nobody would notice him. Instead, he's a top swimmer and cyclist and some folks like to bag him because he can't run 2:51 off the bike. It took me ten IMs to crack three hours.

The guy has my deep respect for his dedication and work ethic. It's was a pleasure to be able to share a few months with him.

g

[reply]look at all them bikes with Campagnolo!!!![/reply]

The white Campagnola Disk are really ugly!

Felix

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http://www.weilenmann.ch.vu

Amen to that.