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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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tlc13 wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:
I’m recently diagnosed with cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma so that’s why I went looking for this old thread.

It’s amazing how quickly these can pop up. I developed a spot right beside my nose that I thought may have been an inflamed sebaceous gland or something. It didn’t go away, and then failed to heal up after I accidentally nicked it while shaving. This all occurred over about 4 weeks. Went to the dermatologist and she said squamous cell carcinoma and I should have Mohs surgery done.

The day of the Mohs procedure ended up taking about 6.5 hours. Had to have two different cuts because the margins were not clean with the first round. Luckily, she was able to get clean margins with the second round but I was told I have a “high risk” SCC. Went in with a spot not even as big as a dime and ended up with an incision about 2.5 inches long, beside my nose.

Because of the high risk nature of my SCC, I had to have a CT scan done. This is just one more example of how our health care system is screwed up, and insurance companies have way too much power. Because of the risk of metastasis, a CT scan was ordered of my head, sinus area (face), and neck. The insurance company said “we will only approve the head CT, and not the other two”. In my mind, this was the least useful of the three CT scans because the biggest risk (with my particular cancer) was looking for lymph node metastasis. So, I told the imaging center to not cancel any of the CT scans and I’d just pay for the other two out of pocket. I already had enough fear/anxiety and I did not want to wait any longer. I’m very fortunate I can pay for these scans but it saddens me to think of how many other patients don’t have the money to pay for these, and possibly get inadequate coverage, and live in fear of the unknown. It’s maddening.

After the CT scan was an ultrasound guided lymph node biopsy for two palpable nodes on the same side as where the cancer was found. Very very thankful these came back NO cancer as well. Doc said they were most likely a “reactive” lymphadenopathy because of the large incision on my face and the immune response to the healing. It still freaked me out.

After the Mohs, sutures out a week later. No heavy lifting, or strenuous exercise, until one week after the Mohs. Advised no running for two weeks. Derm follow up every three months, and self check of neck for lymph nodes constantly.

Main reason for the post is to remind everyone to please take the possibility of skin cancer very seriously. Use your sunscreen and reapply frequently!!! I did not think about it because I “tan easily” and was very nonchalant about using sunscreen. This cancer diagnosis really kicked me in the nuts and woke me up bigtime.


This really hits home. Yes the ct scan immediately is a good idea. I just finished 7 weeks of chemo and radiation on squamous cell from old lip moh’s that attached to trigeminal nerve behind the lip and traveled all along it leaving a trail of cancer and leaving a tumor at the base of my brain. I am being treated at Mayo Clinic and their current procedure for squamous in the lip is the moh’s along with current ct scan and radiation to avoid shit that I am going thru. 10 years ago not the procedure which my doctors say mine was traveling up into my head for up to 10 years. Just clean lines is no gurantee but very rare to travel up, and if a cancer cell escapes it typically will go to the lymph nodes.


Wow, I’m sorry you are having to deal with this. It’s all so stressful, especially all the unknowns. Was the treatment very harsh on your body?

Did you have Mohs performed 10 years ago, around your lips? Did they find any nerve involvement at that time? Or, is this all new procedures and diagnosis?

Bad part about cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma is there’s not much in the way of prospective studies looking at what’s the best course of action to treat a tumor if it is at X stage. There are a lot of case reports, and retrospective reviews, that provide some guidelines. From what I read, some docs suggest adjuvant radiation therapy if there’s any nerve involvement at the initial procedure. Others say there’s no solid proof it is of benefit if there are clean margins. Same with post surgical scanning. Some docs say CT scan and others advocate for an MRI. Of course, insurance will be very unlikely to pay for both.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:
tlc13 wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:
I’m recently diagnosed with cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma so that’s why I went looking for this old thread.

It’s amazing how quickly these can pop up. I developed a spot right beside my nose that I thought may have been an inflamed sebaceous gland or something. It didn’t go away, and then failed to heal up after I accidentally nicked it while shaving. This all occurred over about 4 weeks. Went to the dermatologist and she said squamous cell carcinoma and I should have Mohs surgery done.

The day of the Mohs procedure ended up taking about 6.5 hours. Had to have two different cuts because the margins were not clean with the first round. Luckily, she was able to get clean margins with the second round but I was told I have a “high risk” SCC. Went in with a spot not even as big as a dime and ended up with an incision about 2.5 inches long, beside my nose.

Because of the high risk nature of my SCC, I had to have a CT scan done. This is just one more example of how our health care system is screwed up, and insurance companies have way too much power. Because of the risk of metastasis, a CT scan was ordered of my head, sinus area (face), and neck. The insurance company said “we will only approve the head CT, and not the other two”. In my mind, this was the least useful of the three CT scans because the biggest risk (with my particular cancer) was looking for lymph node metastasis. So, I told the imaging center to not cancel any of the CT scans and I’d just pay for the other two out of pocket. I already had enough fear/anxiety and I did not want to wait any longer. I’m very fortunate I can pay for these scans but it saddens me to think of how many other patients don’t have the money to pay for these, and possibly get inadequate coverage, and live in fear of the unknown. It’s maddening.

After the CT scan was an ultrasound guided lymph node biopsy for two palpable nodes on the same side as where the cancer was found. Very very thankful these came back NO cancer as well. Doc said they were most likely a “reactive” lymphadenopathy because of the large incision on my face and the immune response to the healing. It still freaked me out.

After the Mohs, sutures out a week later. No heavy lifting, or strenuous exercise, until one week after the Mohs. Advised no running for two weeks. Derm follow up every three months, and self check of neck for lymph nodes constantly.

Main reason for the post is to remind everyone to please take the possibility of skin cancer very seriously. Use your sunscreen and reapply frequently!!! I did not think about it because I “tan easily” and was very nonchalant about using sunscreen. This cancer diagnosis really kicked me in the nuts and woke me up bigtime.


This really hits home. Yes the ct scan immediately is a good idea. I just finished 7 weeks of chemo and radiation on squamous cell from old lip moh’s that attached to trigeminal nerve behind the lip and traveled all along it leaving a trail of cancer and leaving a tumor at the base of my brain. I am being treated at Mayo Clinic and their current procedure for squamous in the lip is the moh’s along with current ct scan and radiation to avoid shit that I am going thru. 10 years ago not the procedure which my doctors say mine was traveling up into my head for up to 10 years. Just clean lines is no gurantee but very rare to travel up, and if a cancer cell escapes it typically will go to the lymph nodes.


Wow, I’m sorry you are having to deal with this. It’s all so stressful, especially all the unknowns. Was the treatment very harsh on your body?

Did you have Mohs performed 10 years ago, around your lips? Did they find any nerve involvement at that time? Or, is this all new procedures and diagnosis?

Bad part about cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma is there’s not much in the way of prospective studies looking at what’s the best course of action to treat a tumor if it is at X stage. There are a lot of case reports, and retrospective reviews, that provide some guidelines. From what I read, some docs suggest adjuvant radiation therapy if there’s any nerve involvement at the initial procedure. Others say there’s no solid proof it is of benefit if there are clean margins. Same with post surgical scanning. Some docs say CT scan and others advocate for an MRI. Of course, insurance will be very unlikely to pay for both.

Short answer, yes treatments were brutal without going into details. 4 weeks post treatments and dealing with quite a few problems from the 35 radiation treatments and Cisplatin chemo drug. My blood levels all screwed up. Hemoglobin levels still going down, have had multiple blood transfusions and next is bone marrow biopsy. Scared. My dermatologist at mayo says they only send patients over to radiation after moh’s that have squamous in lips since so close to that trigeminal nerve behind there. Given that, he said highly unusual for the squamous to travel up that nerve, but since so close they refer their patients over to radiation for few treatments. For other facial squamous, moh’s only and then a ct he indicated. he indicated if a squamous cell is going to escape and go elsewhere, will typically happen prior to diagnosis and moh’s, so in essence too late.

Yes, the moh’s on my lip was done way back in2008, and they are pretty confident the spread occurred there about for 10 years. Symptoms that I began to feel was numbness on side of face, long after the damage and spreading was done.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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tlc13 wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:
tlc13 wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:
I’m recently diagnosed with cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma so that’s why I went looking for this old thread.

It’s amazing how quickly these can pop up. I developed a spot right beside my nose that I thought may have been an inflamed sebaceous gland or something. It didn’t go away, and then failed to heal up after I accidentally nicked it while shaving. This all occurred over about 4 weeks. Went to the dermatologist and she said squamous cell carcinoma and I should have Mohs surgery done.

The day of the Mohs procedure ended up taking about 6.5 hours. Had to have two different cuts because the margins were not clean with the first round. Luckily, she was able to get clean margins with the second round but I was told I have a “high risk” SCC. Went in with a spot not even as big as a dime and ended up with an incision about 2.5 inches long, beside my nose.

Because of the high risk nature of my SCC, I had to have a CT scan done. This is just one more example of how our health care system is screwed up, and insurance companies have way too much power. Because of the risk of metastasis, a CT scan was ordered of my head, sinus area (face), and neck. The insurance company said “we will only approve the head CT, and not the other two”. In my mind, this was the least useful of the three CT scans because the biggest risk (with my particular cancer) was looking for lymph node metastasis. So, I told the imaging center to not cancel any of the CT scans and I’d just pay for the other two out of pocket. I already had enough fear/anxiety and I did not want to wait any longer. I’m very fortunate I can pay for these scans but it saddens me to think of how many other patients don’t have the money to pay for these, and possibly get inadequate coverage, and live in fear of the unknown. It’s maddening.

After the CT scan was an ultrasound guided lymph node biopsy for two palpable nodes on the same side as where the cancer was found. Very very thankful these came back NO cancer as well. Doc said they were most likely a “reactive” lymphadenopathy because of the large incision on my face and the immune response to the healing. It still freaked me out.

After the Mohs, sutures out a week later. No heavy lifting, or strenuous exercise, until one week after the Mohs. Advised no running for two weeks. Derm follow up every three months, and self check of neck for lymph nodes constantly.

Main reason for the post is to remind everyone to please take the possibility of skin cancer very seriously. Use your sunscreen and reapply frequently!!! I did not think about it because I “tan easily” and was very nonchalant about using sunscreen. This cancer diagnosis really kicked me in the nuts and woke me up bigtime.


This really hits home. Yes the ct scan immediately is a good idea. I just finished 7 weeks of chemo and radiation on squamous cell from old lip moh’s that attached to trigeminal nerve behind the lip and traveled all along it leaving a trail of cancer and leaving a tumor at the base of my brain. I am being treated at Mayo Clinic and their current procedure for squamous in the lip is the moh’s along with current ct scan and radiation to avoid shit that I am going thru. 10 years ago not the procedure which my doctors say mine was traveling up into my head for up to 10 years. Just clean lines is no gurantee but very rare to travel up, and if a cancer cell escapes it typically will go to the lymph nodes.



Wow, I’m sorry you are having to deal with this. It’s all so stressful, especially all the unknowns. Was the treatment very harsh on your body?

Did you have Mohs performed 10 years ago, around your lips? Did they find any nerve involvement at that time? Or, is this all new procedures and diagnosis?

Bad part about cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma is there’s not much in the way of prospective studies looking at what’s the best course of action to treat a tumor if it is at X stage. There are a lot of case reports, and retrospective reviews, that provide some guidelines. From what I read, some docs suggest adjuvant radiation therapy if there’s any nerve involvement at the initial procedure. Others say there’s no solid proof it is of benefit if there are clean margins. Same with post surgical scanning. Some docs say CT scan and others advocate for an MRI. Of course, insurance will be very unlikely to pay for both.


Short answer, yes treatments were brutal without going into details. 4 weeks post treatments and dealing with quite a few problems from the 35 radiation treatments and Cisplatin chemo drug. My blood levels all screwed up. Hemoglobin levels still going down, have had multiple blood transfusions and next is bone marrow biopsy. Scared. My dermatologist at mayo says they only send patients over to radiation after moh’s that have squamous in lips since so close to that trigeminal nerve behind there. Given that, he said highly unusual for the squamous to travel up that nerve, but since so close they refer their patients over to radiation for few treatments. For other facial squamous, moh’s only and then a ct he indicated. he indicated if a squamous cell is going to escape and go elsewhere, will typically happen prior to diagnosis and moh’s, so in essence too late.

Yes, the moh’s on my lip was done way back in2008, and they are pretty confident the spread occurred there about for 10 years. Symptoms that I began to feel was numbness on side of face, long after the damage and spreading was done.

I’m sorry tlc13. What a battle! Cancer is scary and it brings on an entire new level of respect for cancer survivors, to me.

And what I hate to hear, about SCC, is “at least it’s the better kind of skin cancer to get”. No it’s not! None of them are good, and they are all life changing, no matter the cure rate or prognosis
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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Good luck to you. I’ve been forced to become pretty knowledgeable about SCC’s, and my cancer team at mayo all keep telling me how rare my case is, and is kind of worst case for what i had. Pet scan in May to see if cancer gone. They tell me squamous reacts very well to proton radiation therapy I received to tune of 70-80 percent success rate for me, But shall see.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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tlc13 wrote:
Good luck to you. I’ve been forced to become pretty knowledgeable about SCC’s, and my cancer team at mayo all keep telling me how rare my case is, and is kind of worst case for what i had. Pet scan in May to see if cancer gone. They tell me squamous reacts very well to proton radiation therapy I received to tune of 70-80 percent success rate for me, But shall see.


Thank you. I’ll keep you in my prayers, and hope for the successful outcome (long term success, not just short term). Please update when you can.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:
tlc13 wrote:
Good luck to you. I’ve been forced to become pretty knowledgeable about SCC’s, and my cancer team at mayo all keep telling me how rare my case is, and is kind of worst case for what i had. Pet scan in May to see if cancer gone. They tell me squamous reacts very well to proton radiation therapy I received to tune of 70-80 percent success rate for me, But shall see.


Thank you. I’ll keep you in my prayers, and hope for the successful outcome (long term success, not just short term). Please update when you can.

Will do. My radiation oncologist is confident I will be out there riding and running like I used too. Proton therapy is a game changer. When I got diagnosed of course I googled and found just two clinical trials with squamous traveling up the trigeminal nerve up to brain and they went all way back to 2008 and survival rates were extremely low. So my wife and I were not very encouraged and we were in tears when she told us we have 70-80 percent success rate. Lots of progress in last 12 years. Mayo dermatologist said same thing and the different treatments now for scc’s is way more advanced.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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A 70-80% success rate is very encouraging. I’m glad to hear that, and also that you are receiving such good care. It’s all very stressful.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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To you and OP of the updated comments. Wow. I had a Moh's procedure done and I went in thinking it would be a quick in and out. Nope. Doc took a sizable chunk of my cheek and nose. I went from thinking it would be simple to almost crying I was so shocked about my appearance. I had to go see a high end plastic surgeon in DC who really did an amazing job, and you can't even tell, unless I point it out to you. Crazy part was I had to have a guaze pad literally seen to my cheek to keep it clean and deal with leakage for 2 days. I was horrified.

Best part, I had to convince the original dr to check it out. He was like, it's just a zit. I went back for a 2nd opinion and that was when all the fun began

Get well! Listen to Dr and use plenty of sunscreen.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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I’m glad your doc finally listened to you and took off the lesion. I thought my spot was just a pimple as well. Mainly because it popped up so quickly. It’s scary thinking “what if” I had continued to ignore it.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:
I’m glad your doc finally listened to you and took off the lesion. I thought my spot was just a pimple as well. Mainly because it popped up so quickly. It’s scary thinking “what if” I had continued to ignore it.

Thanks. Hope you recover quickly.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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Given the timing I don’t know if you have already had your procedure, but for anyone else reading this you should be aware that you have the right into request referral to a plastic surgeon for reconstruction after your Mohs resection. Many dermatologists will not offer this unless it’s an anticipated defect that they obviously cannot reconstruct, but you will often be better served in the hands of a plastic surgeon for the reconstruction.

For background, “Mohs surgery” really is referring to how the tissue is processed for pathology, and looking at that pathology immediately to assess margins. The tissue is processed so that the entire edge can be assessed for residual cancer cells - traditional tissue processing slices the sample up like a bread loaf, so tumor cells could be missed between slices. Mohs is like cutting the entire crust off the bread loaf and looking at it.

As far as reconstruction, Mohs “surgeons” are dermatologists with additional pathology training to perform the immediate tissue analysis. There is little to no reconstructive training involved in a dermatology residency or Mohs fellowship. Compare that to a plastic surgeon who has spent 6-8 years training in soft tissue reconstruction and surgery, and you are likely to have a better result in the hands of a trained reconstructive plastic surgeon.

As far as restrictions afterwards, it will largely depend on your reconstruction. A simple linear closure might be ok to hit the pool in 1-2 weeks, but a skin graft may need longer to heal. Listen to what your doctor recommends - an extra week or two of light training is worth the trade off to avoid a significant complication.

Good luck with your recovery, and wear sunscreen!
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [BCtri] [ In reply to ]
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I had my Moh's done by the best plastic surgeon in San Francisco a number of years ago and now, the dermatologist I see now in Nashville can't tell where it was unless he looks really hard. And yes, sunscreen.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I had a 12 hour Mohs surgery about 25 years ago (very new procedure back then), definitely saved my life. To go along with that, I had an old school skin graft which has left me with a nice scar under my eye. Occasionally in conversation when people find out I went to Vietnam they always say "is that where you got that scar?" Funny I got through VN without a scratch, go figure.

So my question, are there any new sunscreen products out there? I have been using mostly mineral based creams and they have been working pretty well.

I'll be needing all the help I can get I'm moving to the sun capital of the US, Phoenix.

Best of luck to the OP, just listen to your docs.

Thanks

Ron W.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [rjsurfer] [ In reply to ]
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Blue Lizard Zinc was advised as a good product that helps block both UVA and UVB.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [BCtri] [ In reply to ]
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BCtri wrote:
Given the timing I don’t know if you have already had your procedure, but for anyone else reading this you should be aware that you have the right into request referral to a plastic surgeon for reconstruction after your Mohs resection. Many dermatologists will not offer this unless it’s an anticipated defect that they obviously cannot reconstruct, but you will often be better served in the hands of a plastic surgeon for the reconstruction.

For background, “Mohs surgery” really is referring to how the tissue is processed for pathology, and looking at that pathology immediately to assess margins. The tissue is processed so that the entire edge can be assessed for residual cancer cells - traditional tissue processing slices the sample up like a bread loaf, so tumor cells could be missed between slices. Mohs is like cutting the entire crust off the bread loaf and looking at it.

As far as reconstruction, Mohs “surgeons” are dermatologists with additional pathology training to perform the immediate tissue analysis. There is little to no reconstructive training involved in a dermatology residency or Mohs fellowship. Compare that to a plastic surgeon who has spent 6-8 years training in soft tissue reconstruction and surgery, and you are likely to have a better result in the hands of a trained reconstructive plastic surgeon.

As far as restrictions afterwards, it will largely depend on your reconstruction. A simple linear closure might be ok to hit the pool in 1-2 weeks, but a skin graft may need longer to heal. Listen to what your doctor recommends - an extra week or two of light training is worth the trade off to avoid a significant complication.

Good luck with your recovery, and wear sunscreen!

Some of this information is not completely true. Dermatologist here. Mohs surgery fellows already have sufficient training in pathology (we are trained in pathology all throughout residency and how to analyze tissue using the Mohs histopathology processing technique). Some of the main purposes of the Mohs fellowship are to perfect this skill and to develop a variety of tissue defect repair techniques. Even as a 2nd year resident, I was doing paramedian forehead flaps and other advanced flaps in my training. I had friends who performed 1500+ Mohs cases and repairs during their fellowship. I would say that the the Mohs surgeons I worked with are just as good with reconstruction, if not better, than plastic surgeons I have worked with. Keep in mind that although plastic surgeons have longer training periods, they also do a variety of other surgical procedures completely unrelated to facial reconstruction. There are some Mohs surgeons that don’t focus on repairs, but this would be the minority.
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [skinmd] [ In reply to ]
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skinmd wrote:
BCtri wrote:
Given the timing I don’t know if you have already had your procedure, but for anyone else reading this you should be aware that you have the right into request referral to a plastic surgeon for reconstruction after your Mohs resection. Many dermatologists will not offer this unless it’s an anticipated defect that they obviously cannot reconstruct, but you will often be better served in the hands of a plastic surgeon for the reconstruction.

For background, “Mohs surgery” really is referring to how the tissue is processed for pathology, and looking at that pathology immediately to assess margins. The tissue is processed so that the entire edge can be assessed for residual cancer cells - traditional tissue processing slices the sample up like a bread loaf, so tumor cells could be missed between slices. Mohs is like cutting the entire crust off the bread loaf and looking at it.

As far as reconstruction, Mohs “surgeons” are dermatologists with additional pathology training to perform the immediate tissue analysis. There is little to no reconstructive training involved in a dermatology residency or Mohs fellowship. Compare that to a plastic surgeon who has spent 6-8 years training in soft tissue reconstruction and surgery, and you are likely to have a better result in the hands of a trained reconstructive plastic surgeon.

As far as restrictions afterwards, it will largely depend on your reconstruction. A simple linear closure might be ok to hit the pool in 1-2 weeks, but a skin graft may need longer to heal. Listen to what your doctor recommends - an extra week or two of light training is worth the trade off to avoid a significant complication.

Good luck with your recovery, and wear sunscreen!


Some of this information is not completely true. Dermatologist here. Mohs surgery fellows already have sufficient training in pathology (we are trained in pathology all throughout residency and how to analyze tissue using the Mohs histopathology processing technique). Some of the main purposes of the Mohs fellowship are to perfect this skill and to develop a variety of tissue defect repair techniques. Even as a 2nd year resident, I was doing paramedian forehead flaps and other advanced flaps in my training. I had friends who performed 1500+ Mohs cases and repairs during their fellowship. I would say that the the Mohs surgeons I worked with are just as good with reconstruction, if not better, than plastic surgeons I have worked with. Keep in mind that although plastic surgeons have longer training periods, they also do a variety of other surgical procedures completely unrelated to facial reconstruction. There are some Mohs surgeons that don’t focus on repairs, but this would be the minority.

My Mohs surgery area is right in the middle of my face (malar) and she did a great job with it. At the surgery center, where I operate, the Mohs surgeons will send over pts with complicated eyelid reconstruction so the oculoplastics doc can put it all back together. Other than those, the Mohs surgeons around here are very good at cutting and then putting the pieces back together very nicely.

As a triathlete, do you have a sunscreen you prefer?
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Re: Moh's Sugery - Skin Cancer [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t have any recommendations based on the conditions in the thread, but I love Zealios

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning
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