I battled with swimming for months and still do to a certain extent. I am getting much better. I was only able to do 300 yards a workout. I joined a Masters team and now swim 3000 meters 3 times a week. It is all technique. I work with the coaches at Emory University and they have helped quite a bit.



Good Luck

i am a rock in the water. i did a 1/2 iornman allmost 2 years ago, and did the swim in 50minutes, with a wetsuit. After doing that race i decided i wanted to do the Duke Blue Devil Ironman which was roughly 1 year away. I needed a lot of help with the swim, i used the TI book and a lot of swim drills from Trimycoach.com, and swam 2-3 times a week over the course of that year. Swim results for the DBD 1:13 total swim time. That also included a nice 3 minute stroll out of the water after the first lap and back into the water for the 2nd.

I didn't have the money for a one day clinic, but used a lot of my tri buddies who are good swimmers for tips and feedback. Most of all my swimming over the winter months was stictly drills. It worked for me, i am no where near the front of the pack on the swim, but will probably never be.

i would say give the book and video a try, see if it works for you. If it does then drop the money for te clinic next time around.



Mark

I agree about joining a Master's team. I think that is the best way to get quality coaching at an affordable price. I have looked into the weekend clinics and they are too pricey for me. I also would discourage the book/tape "self-teaching" methods, unless you can do an out of body thing and float above the pool and watch yourself swim. BTW, Mark Spitz was 6' and 165# too.

"I joined a Masters team and now swim 3000 meters 3 times a week."

vs.

"It is all technique."


ALL technique? Your 9000 meters/week helped, too. :-)

I think technique is necessary but not sufficient. Doing nothing but technique drills for 8 months won't do much unless you get some yardage (meterage?) in your arms.

jkatsoudas -- I wouldn't worry too much about strength training. Your goals sound attainable. Work on technique so you're not fighting yourself in the water, then apply the technique to some long yards.

One word: coach. Swimming is odd, in that it is rather hard to confirm that what you are actually doing is what you *think* you are doing in terms of technique. Try to find a masters swim team that has a coach on deck, and whose coach has the time to watch what you are doing and help you correct flaws. In addition, you should learn as much as you can (read, get training videos aimed at the kids (the "real" swimmers), talk to good swimmers (dedicated swimmers, not just triathletes)) about what good stroke technique is.

I'd put the time you might be doing "strength training" into doing stroke drills to correct flaws. If you can do 2,000-3,000yds/day, 3-4 days/week, and learn correct technique, you should be able to do 1:10 or under. The swimming will give you the strength you need ("specificity"); remember, it's not the max power you can put out, it's the power you can sustain for the distance (and how efficient your stroke is). I'm sure you're stronger than Janet Evans, so it ain't just the strength (that's an unfair comparison, since she was an aerobic monster, I think).

(My background: I'm 45, started swim training at age 26 (running background before that); 500free PR of 5:17 at age 31; triathlon 1500m PR of 18:54 at 34; hour swim PR of 4765yds; have been the first racer onto the bike in a triathlon. I did very little strength training when I started training, but I got training videos (for age groupers, not for Masters), had an on-deck coach, and did *lots* of stroke drills. I haven't done (until my lunch swim today) much more than about 1600yds in a workout in several years, and haven't swum more than three times/week in years, but was first out of the water in the 45+ wave in a sprint (500yd swim) tri this weekend).

Where do you swim?

Ken Lehner

Last year I averaged about 2:25 - 2:30 per 100 meters for my long distance swimming. I spent the winter (October to June) swimming twice a week with a stroke improvement class. For the first 3 months we did 1/2 an hour of TI drills and 1/2 an hour of swimming. After that, we mostly just swam intervals with TI drills done only as part of the warm-up. We sometimes had a masters swim coach who would come by to give us tips on our stroke, but not always. I was able to complete a 1/2 IM swim in July averaging 2:07 per 100 meters. That's not exactly speedy, but I was really happy with the progress. I'm hoping to do the same thing this winter and get down to 1:50 to 1:55 next season.

I think the TI drills helped, but I didn't rely on them alone. I think having other people to swim with who were faster than me and pushed me a bit really helped. I agree that joining a masters team is ideal, but that wasn't an option for me since I'm not fast enough yet to keep up with even the slow lane of masters. I also think the tips I got from the swim coaches really helped. If you can't find anyone, hire a coach for a couple of sessions every couple of months to help you along.

Good luck!!! Dawn

I preface this post by clearly stating that I swam my last 1/2IM in 40 minutes and IMFL in 1:24. That said, I couldn't swim 50 continuous meters 3 years ago. I took the TI workshop in atlanta and that improved my swimming a lot. I learned balance and that gave me the confidence to join a masters team. I've since moved and now swim alone but those 2 things really turned my swimming around. I'm still not fast but I swim my 100s at about 1:40.

I would say that at this point, your only limiter is technique. The time you spend on strength training (ie weights) will be worthless, because you are not able to transfer that strength into forward propulsion. Also, don't forget that swimming IS a form of strength training, all that water is heavy. That time spent on weights would be better spent working on technique.

Your greatest bang for the buck will come from finding a masters swim program in your area which can (a) help you with your technique, and (b) eventually push you during workouts. Make sure you let the coach know that you want a lot of help with your stroke. Learn to do strokes other that freestyle well, especially backstroke and breaststroke. They'll improve your feel for the water, and will also give you an alternative during races.

J.

Thanks all,

Great recommendations on the coaching and the masters swimming. I actually already belong to the Santa Clara Swim Club masters program (Ken, I swim at the Santa Clara Intl swim center), but I've been intimidated to swim with the group because I don't have any prayer of keeping up with even the slowest of swimmers (I joined to have access to the pool on the evenings/weekends). Up to now, I've been swimming 2-3 times a week, mostly at lunch. I usually average 1800-1900m in about 50 minutes if I'm doing form drills, and ~2200m if I'm doing slow/steady swim. I agree that technique is my sole limiter, as I'm able to go 3000m+ without feeling really tired. I feel like I've made some progress in the past 6 months. I did the Wildflower swim in 46:29 at an avg HR of ~170 (zone 3/4). I did Vineman at essentially the same pace but at an avg HR of ~145 (zone 1/2) so I felt much stronger coming out of the water. However, I know that if I just keep doing the same thing I'm going to keep reinforcing terrible habits. Thanks again for the recommendation.

WRT to the strength training, I agree that if there was a trade-off on time, the time is better spent in the pool. But, given that the times that I have access to the pool are somewhat limited and I can do exercises with elastic bands at home in the evening, is it beneficial at all to do these or am I just wasting my time altogether?

Get with a coach. My sessions with one were worth their weight in gold. The techniques I learned and worked on opened doors to new and better drills and workouts.

I sometimes tell people that swimming is kinda like golf: without technique, you'll struggle mightily.

Good luck.

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__________________________________________________
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

jkatsoudas,
I think the best way to figure out swim technique is to have one on one sessions with someone with some real coaching experience. If you have any Age Group swim teams in the area,
(http://www.usa-swimming.org/programs/template.pl?opt=news&pubid=1748) I would suggest you contact the coach and try to set up some private lessons. I would be willing to bet you could find someone to work with you for $25 / hour or less. Ideally they could also offer some video (underwater is ideal, but even a regular camcorder from the surface would really enable someone to show you actually what you are doing wrong). At this point in your learning curve you really need continuous feedback.

A masters group could be beneficial as well, but most that I have attended, haven't had the one-on-one coaching that will help you improve your technique. Good luck.

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"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"

I did my first IM swim last year in 1:35. This year, I did 1:16 and 1:15. Still not fast, but a 20 minute improvement. I had been working almost exclusively on drills before my 1st IM and it helped me be more comfortable in the water, but not too much quicker. A few months before my 1st IM this year, I had a friend who is a coach take a look at my stroke. He gave me 3 major tips, all focused on the idea of propulsion, and I fashioned new drills, based on those tips. In 2 weeks, I dropped 35-40 seconds off my 100's in 2 weeks!! He took another look 2 weeks later and told me how much better my stoke looked. He then gave me a couple of other tips. In all of my races since, I have gone from being almost dead last to almost MOP.

What I'm saying is, drills are good, but make sure the drills you are doing are the right ones for your needs. Even if you can't afford continuous lessons, get someone good to help you out for at least a few sessions. I improved more in 2 weeks than I had in 2 years of drills. I might also add that not every coach will be the right one for you. I'd had a few other coaches look at my stroke and none of them gave me the few specific tips that I was eventually given that resulted in the rapid improvements.


I also found that it was very helpful for my coach to actually get in the water and show me what I was doing and to show me how it should look.

drills and techniqe are great but if you dont know how and why you are doing the drill you are re-enforcing bad habits. same with masters, sure you will get a heck of a workout but how efficient are you in the water. Try to borrow a TI manual or video and watch it, it starts from the basics... FLOATING. to many guys push too much water instead of floating on top of it. Once you get the "feel" of swimming effortlessly, the endurance and speed will come quickly with time spent on drill. TI will not teach you to go faster... at first. But it will teach you how to feel the water instead of fighting it.

I just started doing tri's this summer and I had to learn to swim from scratch (starting in late june). Fast forward to september and I finally got the confidence to join the masters swim team... i was doing 500m 3 times in the pool next to them at a pace around 11 minutes per.

Anyways just to let you know about my experience with the team over the week I've been with them. Everyone has been very nice and very supportive. I talked to the coach first .. I told him I was doing tri's and I wouldn't mind if he gave me tips on my stroke (and I was basically new to swimming still).

I swim in last place in the slowest lane and I cannot do the full workout yet. If I get tired I make sure I make it to the end of the pool then move out of the way and people just swim past. No one cares they know I'm just getting started and they encourage me to keep at it.

Obviously a coach will help improve your technique but another added benefit of swimming with the masters is swimming with people. You can practice drafting and deal ingwith the chaos of choppy water and people if you need it.

Not much new to add to this, but:

Do go to the TI clinic. I did this last winter and it helped me IMMENSELY to understand what correct freestyle feels like.

Do go to the masters swim workouts. Do NOT be initimidated. I've just joined one of the teams here in NYC (Red Tide). The coaching is great, but more than that I get a MUCH better workout as the slowest guy in my lane than I ever did swimming on my own. The coach puts us through some drills that make me feel like I'm going to drown, and I have to do freestyle whenever he asks us to do butterfly, but I'm working harder in the pool than I would ever work myself. If I feel like I'm slowing everybody down, I cut the set short and just finish when everyone else finishes, and make sure I'm not in their way.

After the TI weekend, I think I have a pretty decent freestyle technique. Problem is, I can't sustain it for more than a few hundred yards. By the end of the workout, I'm just pounding water. The only way I'm going to improve is yardage. That'll help me build the strength and endurance to sustain the technique. Sounds like you're in a similiar boat.

Good luck!
Lee

I coached age group swimming and masters for 2 yrs and sent several kids to college to swim. The videos are a bunch of BS unless you know what your doing, or at the least have a good idea. you might drop a whole 5 sec off your 100 pace with them. Find a good coach to work with 2-3 times and you'll probably drop 10-15 seconds or more. I had masters go from 29 to 24 min 1500m LC in 2 weeks by learning how to swim. Learn to swim then use the videos to refine your stroke. Your wasting time otherwise IMO.
Focus on technique. I swam some with the girls swim team at college and the first month of practice they swam 4-6k a day, 75% technique and drills.
As for the bands great training aids. Here are 2 exercises that will have you swimming stronger, and coupled with your improved technique after getting some real coaching, faster.
Ex 1: bend at waist, lock upper arms into sides, bend elbows to 90 degree and staighten. This mimics the final phase of your stroke.
Ex 2: Step back further, bend at waist, extend arms out in front of you and pull arms back past your hips. have a small bend in your elbows.
I remember seeing some bands exercises on a tri site but don't remember the site.
If you are really serious about getting faster find a coach willing to work one on one. It will save you more time and energy than a set of aero wheels will.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

If you start swimmng with the club, you'll be amazed at how rapid your improvement is, if the coach takes the time to work with you on your stroke. Also, in every group, someone is slowest and someone else is fastest. Don't sweat it.

Sounds like you have plenty of strength as is. If you wanted to be a 100 free specialist, then yeah hit the weights hard. For distance work, weights are excellent for injury prevention (ie rotator cuff exercises), but for most of us they're not necessary.

Given that your pool time is limited I would recommend that you work on your flexibility, particularly at shoulders, trunk and ankles. Most who start swimming later in life do not have the range of motion necessary to get really streamlined and still get the power down.

J

I think the swim cords can help, because they work on exactly the muscles required for swimming. It certainly can't hurt, and the time required is minimal. Gordo has a good outline of how to use them on his site:

http://www.byrn.org/swimcords.htm

Also note this study,
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coachsci/csa/vol71/simmons.htm
which indicates that for men in sprint swims, strength is related to swim power, even though the correlation is not there for women.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview