>>It concerns me, but I prefer to be vigilant<<

Being vigilant is all well and good, but sometimes that is not enough, as my mounting chiropractor bills will attest. It may well be my vigilance and defensive driving skills that lead to only one person (me) going off in the ambulance and the rest of the six cars to only bump each other. The other two cars that hit and ran....a pox, voodoo spells and major bad karma to those drivers.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

The G Wagon is tough, but I think the Unimog is tougher. Just don't plan on getting anywhere in a hurry - it's a gigantic version of a box turtle. While we're on the subject of ultimate vehicles, check out the UXL 17 at:

http://www.unicat.net/en/indexe.html

Regarding safety, we've all heard those arguments before. But if we all keep driving bigger and bigger vehicles to protect us from our neighbor who got a bigger vehicle to protect himself from us then we end up in a vicious cycle. Personally, I refuse to be drawn into that kind of phobia.

We looked at the Honda Element when my Neon died. Sigh. I so wanted to get through 2003 without having to replace one car, much less both of them.

The problem is that they do not crash well for side impacts. Ended up getting a Corolla instead, and I'm very happy with it so far for a second car: great gas mileage, good trunk space, crashes very well, and generally very comfortable.

Hi damn:

My wife's Toyota Highander has been an excellent vehicle. If you use a skewer based support on the floor of the back, it will hold two bikes: my cannondale with aero bars and my epic mtb also, both with only removing the seat/seatpost. We have had it about three years, 45k miles without even a burp. The back seats fold down on a 1/3, 2/3 basis so you can still carry one bike and three people. It is full time on demand four wheel drive and, while relatively expensive (depending on the level you choose), lasts a long time and has decent (20 mpg) mileage (for us). The hatchback gives you security as the rear windows are all pretty dark. Height for entry/exit of bikes from the back is good. We have really liked this vehicle and would get another one. We got an extended warranty, for like $100 that doubles the factory warranty. Go for what you like.

Jerry

I agree with those that said minivan. We went mountain biking in the rockies on the weekend and had 4 people with bikes inside the van. When stopping for supper the bikes were safely locked inside instead of worying about leaving them on a rack.

You mentioned changing. Not only is it easy to change in a minvan, you can sleep inside the thing if you want.

In the rain, you have a dry workshop to work on the bike. It's like having a small bike garage with you.

We have the Honda and for comfort, it rides and handles like a large sedan.

A bit off topic, but yeah, a G Wagon's got nothin' on a Mog. Check out this video of a Mog doing something you won't see any G Wagon doing. On the other hand, if you're looking for a vehicle for everyday usage, a Mog is not a good choice.

Watch at least the first two. http://www.unimogvideo.com/Tyson%20Video.htm

Thanks for the link. That thing swims a lot better than I do.

That is the coolest vehicle I've ever seen. I need that here in NY to take care of all the taxi drivers!

---

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Animal!!!

I hear you on the marketing thing. They do a good job of working off peoples fear of getting in accidents and suddenly safety is so much more inportant than it ever was. How times have changed. I remember our family of 10 piling into my Dad's VW Scirocco. I think my parents would be arrested for that now! What some people don't understand is that SUVs aren't that much more safe. While they may be a bit more safe for the SUV driver, they have a greater chance of causing a fatality because the people you end up hitting will most likely be crushed and die.

If you like German cars, you can get a 1999 or 2000 Audi A6 Avant (the wagon) that has all-wheel-drive and every option in the world for < $20,000. I found a car lot that buys lease returns from the auction and resells them. Bought a '99 A6 loaded with 32,000 miles for $19,000. It's the most comfortable car I've ever owned, there's tons of space, and it has stock roof rack mounts. FWIW.

Opinions are like ....., I've got one too.

I drive a Mitsubishi Lancer wagon. Not sure if you can get it in the states, but similar sizewise to a Mazda Protege 5. Where i live, gas costs about $1.30 per litre, thats over $5 per gallon folks. Fortunately we don't need to drive very far. Everyone here drives (by law) a small car. No Civics, they're too big. with a roof rack or trunk rack, you can easily fit 3 or 4 bikes, 4 people, and all of their gear. What else do you need?

Oh, bought it used too, so I paid less than half the price of a new car. That savings is contributing to a new fixed gear bike to ride over the winter.

As to the SUV and safety thing, my father-in-law has the exact opposite of my car, yes a living room (aka Suburban). I do not think I am any safer in that vehicle than I am in the Lancer. Yes, my chances are probably better in the suburban in a crash, but I am more likely to avoid the crash in the first place in the Lancer (better brakes, better handling, less rollover risk, etc etc). I'd rather not have the guzzler, save a whole wad of cash on the car itself, and spend the extra on more bikes, bike stuff (DA 10 speed!!!), and travel to races.



Sermon over. As you were.

Well I will chime in as well. I am getting ready to leave work in 20 minutes to go home and load up my Expedition for a trip to Pacific Grove for the Oly race tomorrow. Yea it is a gas sucking pig but when you have to carry wife, two kids and assorted gear it works out pretty well. As big as it is I still end up putting my bike on the hitch rack. Using a roof rack on this monster is downright scary (first climb a latter with bike in your hands, then insert in rack...oh there goes ladder...crash!).

I should say in the interests of environmental awareness, I also have a Honda Accord I commute in and use when traveling alone to races. Back seat folds down and it works great at nearly 30 mph. I like the idea of the butt ugly new Element. Has "Butt Ugly" been claimed for a license plate yet in California?

Mike

Read the accident reports and insurance reports...guess what? You are MORE likely to die in an SUV wreck than when you aren't in an SUV for one reason...ROLLOVER!

That's right...being in a ROLLOVER kills SUV occupants at a higher rate than being plowed into by an SUV. I know you FEEL safer in an SUV, but the facts show otherwise...not only are you not safer, you are endangering others that you plow into by sheer mass.

There are almost as many people killed in auto wrecks in the US every year than US soldiers killed in the entire Vietnam war. Nothing is "safe" about driving, we're just used to the danger. Sadly, the people that feel so safe in their SUV's are endangering themselves as well as other motorists even more. Certainly, there are many exceptions, and many people can testify to wrecks where the sheer mass of their SUV "saved" them. But, that isn't the whole story.

Just look at the death rates per mile the past years when SUVs became popular compared to the previous years. If SUV's were "safer" wouldn't one expect the death rate per mile to plummet as the SUV became so ubiquitous? Well, it hasn't.

Don't kid yourself. SUV's aren't safer, they are actually MORE dangerous both to the occupants and to the poor saps they run into. Combine their inherent safety issues with people that aren't able to handle the increased mass in emergency situations, plus having people that are errantly smug about their relative safety because they are in an SUV, and we have a big problem. They pollute much more to boot. Just say NO to the standard SUV route.

---

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Ah, the bigger is better argument. Of course logic says otherwise:

1) As somebody else mentioned, if everybody goes bigger little is gained. And there are two groups of sure losers, and unfortunately all of us on this forum belong to both groups: pedestrians and cyclists.

2) The recent increases in traffic injuries in the US after years of declines is virtually completely attributable to SUV/truck accidents. And although they pose a nasty danger for other drivers, the biggest danger is to themselves, SUV/truck drivers score very poorly due to the high number of single-vehicle accidents (skids, rollovers, etc). Ever notice how in a snowstorm most the vehicles in the ditch are SUV/trucks/minivans?

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

To give you an idea just how big they are, this is my XTERRA parked next to a stock Mog:

And the SUV manufacturers admit it. I remember when the latest statistics came out that showed drivers of SUVs are more likely to die than their car driving counterparts, the industry countered saying they had a survey that clearly showed drivers of SUVs FELT safer in their vehicles. What kind of an argument is that, it just shows their marketing is working and the truth rarely gets in the way of good spin.

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

I saw one for sale this weekend out in Brigehampton, NY. I almost pulled over to take a look at how much their asking. But how was I going to explain purchasing a vehicle that craps Humvees to my girlfriend?

---

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Animal!!!

Just say "Trust me baby - I know a sweet thang when I see one!" and wink.

(Yes, remarkably, I do have a girlfriend)

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Look at a used Volvo as probably depreciate heavily in the US. V70 estate as already mentioned. S60 saloon can fit a bike in as the rear seats fold forwards. Very comfortable to drive and the T5 has 250 BHP. Very high on safety, last for ever and relatively economical.

And to top it off - it looks like it has racks for a longboard and a bike.

Yeah, which is actually quite laughable. I'm 6'1" and I have a hard time getting my bike on top of my XTERRA. Someone must have to climb the ladder and have gear passed up to 'em. Crazy.