Isn't this every race in Belgium?

My general sense ... Anabolic steroids help aerobic performance.

But less than we think. And less than other available strategies that are contained under the umbrella of fairness.

Can I prove it? Nope. Might be studies out there but I am not interested in looking very hard.

For instance, the women's world record for 100 meter swim in 1973 was set at 58.25 by Kornelia Ender of East Germany. During the next 3 years, she lowered it to 55.65 in sequential steps.

Ender was swimming in a program that promoted systematic doping with anabolic steroids. Probably, I should have included the word "alleged."

But my understanding is that Ender and her fellow swimmers were essentially victims of a nationalized scheme. Easy enough to Google her history.

Last year at USA Swimming nationals, Ender's first world record at 58.25 would have placed 104th in prelims and not advanced to finals.

Since then, a lot has improved with training, nutrition, women's parity in sports. But it's still 100 meters of water.

I picked the women's 100 meter swim because I figured ...

a) women might benefit from testosterone and analogues more than men (I don't actually know that to be true),

b) it's an extreme example intended to strengthen my contrarian argument,

and c) all this happened about 50 years ago, which seems like a convenient time frame to capture the "other available strategies that are contained under the umbrella of fairness."

There are not 104 women in the US taking steroids to swim faster than Ender did.

But there are 104 women swimming faster due to better youth development opportunities, quality training programs, family and societal support, good nutrition and adequate naps, whatever, you name it.

I have asthma meds. And also was on a sterner corticosteriod for a couple of periods last year.
There's very straight forward web sites to search whst is and isnt banned. Or in some cases permitted limits, or thkngs permitted outside of races but not in races 'in competition'.

Fornthe inhalers - the becotide (brown 'preventer' was unlimited for use.
Ventolin (salbutermol) (blue) ok in and out of comp. But a limit of 8 puffs per 12 hrs (was 16 in 24 but got revised). At the point I'm needing 16+ puffs (@100micrograms) in a day I'm not in any sort of state suitable to be toeing the start line of any triathlon ..i should be at home.
This links to the Chris Froome case a year or so ago for testimg over limits (which took a lot of £££ to get overturned c/o Sky dollars).
And no injecting it.

Terabutaline (blue reliever, e.g. 'brycanyl' is BANNED. Full stop.
And that's ok to he banned as alternatives are available (eg ventolin).

Some 'steroids' (corticosteroids that is) are permitted under some circumstances out of competition- e.g. Prednisolone which is used as an anti-inflamatory to treat asthma. The tablet courses are OK but not within 1 month of competition..(i had 2 or 3 coueses of these last year - and I can tell you from experience, at the point they were NEEDED, starting a tri was the last thing i had in mind.

So to sum up
- info easy to find on the web as to what is and isn't banned
- plenty of acceptable asthma treatments available
- sample of 1, when I've had to use the restricted drugs or exceed permitted race levels, I'm in NO state to be on the start line of anything.

A certain ex-pro cyclist told me using HGH with no other drug raised his hematocrit by three points. That is a pretty large boost if you are starting at 42.

There are not 104 women in the US taking steroids to swim faster than Ender did. //

You are right, most of them are probably faster just from the technological advances in the last 50 years, and together they are huge. 1/2+ dozen things to make pools faster, and of course the suits that are worth at least a second a 100 from that time, and the actual stroke changes. If you back all that out of your hypothesis, probably only a few beating her straight up. So what was your point again?

In the movie Icarus (Netflix), it didn't seem to help him a whole lot in the end.

I think some people are better designed to be on steroids than others. Someone like Lance Armstrong seemed to be the perfect human specimen to optimize steroid use.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Much of the steroid use seems to revolve more around cutting weight than anything else.

Would be interesting to see the weights of TdF riders over the past 40 years on a graph. I bet it would be going down. The guys in the 80s looked 10kgs heavier than now.

more or less, my point is this ...

the best swimmer in the world in the 1970s, benefiting from all the advantage of her time, plus steroids

does not make US finals last summer, against swimmers benefiting from all the current advantages, minus steroids

it's a small point, but the idea is that steroids alone do not champions make

instead, performance is built upon a complex and dynamic interplay of factors

which I think you and I agree upon

although it doesn't address the OP's original request, which I interpret as this ...

--do the measurable benefits of anabolic steroids match the endurance gains we expect

--does the data meet the hype

Just point of order - you realize your first post was to an 8-year-old post? :)

Trail
Thank you. No, I didn't realize Lorris007 had resurrected an old conversation to further some outside commercial interests.
I got snared and you helped me.
Todd

Fluoxymesterone also called Flonase that you can buy anywhere for nasal allergy problems are currently on the ban list which is total BS. I believe that its coming off the list however it just goes to show how far the pendulum has swung. Testosterone is a PED that should be ban for all the reasons listed in this thread but when we get to the point of an OTC allergy medication that you would need a TUE to use......well that is just stupid.

Quantifiable.

About between 5-10% on my FTP. That's measured.

I was on a course of pred for a very nasty lung condition. In the short term at high dosage and then a lower doasage for nearly 2.5 years. I don't recommend it.

Do you swim and run??? If so, what type of improvements in those sports??? I'm not clear on how to translate FTP improvement to swim/run performance. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I'm not doctor but just to clarify - if you search Flonase (or Fluticasone propinate) on the Global DRO it is NOT banned and is allowed both in-competition and out-of-competition.

the med you listed is used to treat low T not allergies

Yeah, that was a great ‘reveal’ kinda funny.
If the doping apologists here wouldn’t make me gag.
.

It was in 2019 but I think it came off the list in 2020 or early 2021

I got the generic name wrong....you are correct. The trade name Flonase (fluticasone) is what I was talking about ....my bad.

You need to read my OP but I understand that context is a lost art.

I have some people close to me that take steroids more for the Bodybuilding / Gym going use. and it's no doubt it's beneficial to ANY Athletic activity

But sometimes before an Ironman race when transition area is open and everybody is getting ready, bikes in the rack I always take a look at everybody as ask myself - how many AGs are take any steroids?

I will never know, but sometimes you catch yourself thinking about it