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What if? - a tri format question
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Here's a post looking for debate. I'm wondering how different results in overall times would be if participants were allowed to race their strengths last. I'm not proposing a different kind of triathlon, just wondering about how the mind and body work in a triathlon. Ideally, we're triathletes, so we look at the race as a whole, and pace accordingly. But we all have things that come a bit easier than others, so we spend less or more time at these.

I've noticed with myself, that with the different aspects of triathlon, I'm more comfortable knowing how hard I can push my limits depending on how strong I am at a given activity.

So for example, do you think Larsen could turn in faster Ironman times if he could run before the bike since he may be more comfortable staying conservative on the run, and hammering until the breaking point on the bike. Just the mental factor of knowing there were weaker cyclists ahead of him on the last leg, rather than stronger runners behind him on the last leg, seems like an advantage.

Given two athletes with the same overall time capabilities, it seems to me that whoever is strongest on the last leg would win head to head more often than not.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."
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Re: What if? - a tri format question [Jack in Mi] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I won't offer any debate, rather an agreement. Read somewhere that the top ten finishers in a recent world cup race in Canada corresponded with the ten fastest run splits. However, I'm too lazy to look for a link to the results. I think that having your fastest/best discipline last is a real mental boost. Although, perhaps some runners may disagree? I'm a swimmer, so this is all hypothesising on my part.







"Language most shows a man: Speak, that I may see thee. It springs out of the most retired and inmost parts of us, and is the image of the parents of it, the mind. No glass so mirrors a man's form or likeness so true as his speech." - Ben Jonson, Timber, or Discoveries made upon Men and Matter.
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Re: What if? - a tri format question [GBJ] [ In reply to ]
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Did that article also say that the folks with the 10 fastest run splits named running as their strength? Maybe it wasn't, perhaps they were so strong on the bike that they left enough for a really good run?

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Elivis needs boats.
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Re: What if? - a tri format question [Jack in Mi] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting thought - there was a race scheduled in New Jersey earlier this summer that reversed the order. Unfortunately, it was canceled. As I am a poor runner and much stronger in the bike and swim, I was curious to see if that made a difference. In a recent race, I was caught at the end and sprinted with two guys to the finish. We all crossed together and got the same time, it was interesting to see the splits later.


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Re: What if? - a tri format question [Jack in Mi] [ In reply to ]
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i'm going to play devil's advocate here, because i think it'd be interesting to run the sort of race you're talking about. however, you wanted a debate, so i'll give you one...

the way the triathlon is set up now (swim bike run, in case anyone was wondering), is as close to pure racing as you can get. let me explain. first of all, transitions: i've run an aquathlon, and let me tell you how much of a pain it is to get into swim gear in a hurry. and that was without a wetsuit. it just seems to me that if you change the order of disciplines so that swim isn't necessarily first, you're going to hurt the swimmers.

also, think about what would happen if the race ended with people being on bikes. with triathlon being a draft-free sport, you wouldn't have the possibility of neck-and-neck finishes (rare as those may be) that happen in running finishes. and maybe it's just me, but open-water swim finishes would be kinda chaotic and uninteresting (or maybe not).

and most importantly, think about what would happen if the top 3 competitors were on their way to finishing within a few seconds of each other - but one was swimming last, one was biking last, and one was running. how would they know where they stand? how would the runner and biker be able to race to the finish without worrying about crashing?

still, i think a mix-n-match triathlon would be an interesting race to run, and i'd gladly sign up for one - i'd just probably end up doing it swim-bike-run.





http://www.theninjadon.blogspot.com

"The bicycle riders drank much wine, and were burned and browned by the sun. They did not take the race seriously except among themselves." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
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Re: What if? - a tri format question [vidaeboa] [ In reply to ]
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Well, we rarely have to worry about wetsuits here in the South so I think it would be interesting to change up the order. The most intimidating part of a triathlon to most newbies is battling through the first 100 yards when they're not really comfortable in the water to begin with. Heck, I am a swimmer and I would love to hit the water with only a few, if any, people around me.
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Re: What if? - a tri format question [vidaeboa] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with all your points, the logistics of such a race may very well be prohibitive- which is why I'm not proposing there should be one, but only wondering if things might be different if athletes could truly race their strengths 100%, rather than conserving energy for the run. Obviously this applies more to cyclists that swimmers.

It probably only applies to MOP's and some very specialist pro's like Larsen, since the successful Age groupers and most pro's have developed a very good understanding of pacing, and a very high level of fitness in all three events (not suggesting that Larsen doesn't have a high level of fitness in all three, but he is obviously head and shoulders better than most people on the bike). I wouldn't mind an exhibition though of Deboom (or any other great runner) vs. Larsen with a bike finish, just to see if my theory held. Or just plain whoever gets to the finish line first, in whatever order of events they want, wins.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."
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Re: What if? - a tri format question [Jack in Mi] [ In reply to ]
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I think that it seems to me that Tri's are setup with "propencity for death" in mind. For instance, if you bink swimming, you drown...if you bonk on the bike, you can crash...if you bonk on the run, you fall down....



Ever see people over heat and get confused on the run near the end of an IM? Imagine that in the water!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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