Of course it is beyond ridiculous. No question there.

My hit and run story fortunately had me coming out of it, in one piece. I got hit by a school bus back when I was just 19. The bus was going about my speed and shoved me into the curb. I was scraped up pretty good with road rash from head to toe and a concussion. The bus did not stop...(and neither did any of the cars behind me).

Long story short, I grew to learn that the "bus driver rules" have them checking their mirrors every time they pass a cyclist, and therefore it could not have happened as I said or the bus driver would have seen me. I was also questioned how did I know it was what 'brand' of school bus it was, if I hit the curb...

My father being an attorney said we could sue and probably win, however it would be a long drawn out case, and "did I want to go through that hassle?" I did not. I was technically ok, so I settled with the "nusance" fee they gave me, which covered my medical bills and bike repair costs.

It seemed in the end that it was their word against mine, and although I had one witness, Laidlaw, (the bus company in question) was very prepared to stay in the battle for the long haul.

For some reason, the law seems to be quite lenient on hit and run when it comes to bikes.

glad that you are here in one piece...
it happened to me once in australia...a car hit my rear wheel...I went down hard and couldn't see the plate....what I could see though was the police car that nearly drove over me, barely looked but the passenger cop did look at me...and that was not to chase the guy (they couldn't have NOT seen it), they went the other way...
I went to the police station to complaint, and all I got was "keep it quiet or it could go bad for you"...
welcome to the Gold Coast, a friendly area for cycling.

BTW, isn't the law far less lenient for hit and run involving pedestrians??

Sad but true that cyclists' lives do seem to be, shall we say, undervalued.

I was the victim of a hit and run drunk driver nearly one month ago. I was fortunate for at least two reasons: I wasn't seriously hurt and there were good samaritan/witnesses up the wazoo. We even got the guy's (gal's) license plate.

No action whatsoever from the police one month later.

Go figure. Think I'll call them again right now.

Best,

---

TonyG

What is Enoch Root?

A real good friend of mine got hit by a guy at 6am on a weekday morning. The guy was a musician coming home after an all night drunk. Knocked my friend off the side of an embankment, killing him. This happened in your neck of the woods, Taos, NM. The penalty for negligent homicide was 5 years. The guy got one year. Justice is not only blind, it is sometimes dumb.

Bob Sigerson

I am not a fan of long sentences. Prison sentences that is. :)

The problem is not the lack of punishment of drivers.

Actually the problems (plural) are much broader. At my age I'm fortunate to have an historical perspective. I remember when kids could ride a bike from Euclid, Ohio, through one of the tougher neighborhoods even then to downtown Cleveland to watch the Indians play. I must have done it 100 times. I never had my bike stolen nor was I hurt. Also took the bus a lot as a 10 year old. My parents never told me they were afraid I'd get killed on the bus or riding my bike. Today, the roads are crowded, the drivers sit in isolated luxury surrounded by air conditioning, blasting stereos, and cell phones, all while they eat their cheeseburgers and get a blow job. People are angry, stressed, fat and full of cholesterol and high blood pressure, and very self-indulgent. Everyone thinks its THEIR road, THEIR time, THEIR life that is most important. Today, we are all islands, or so we think.

Detroit built it and we came....

The war is over, bikers lost and we ain't goin' back.

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Not a fan of long prison sentences and The problem is not the lack of punishment of drivers? What kind of crap is that? Sorry Robert, a human life is worth much more than a one year jail sentence.

I remember the good old days as well and I miss them as well. I cry thinking about all the kids who've been kidnapped and killed by people who've thumbed their nose up at the system because WE let them.

These "drivers sit in isolated luxury surrounded by air conditioning, blasting stereos, and cell phones, all while they eat their cheeseburgers and get a blow job." have no respect for human life because people like you aren't fans of long prison sentences. So what if "People are angry, stressed, fat and full of cholesterol and high blood pressure, and very self-indulgent. Everyone thinks its THEIR road, THEIR time, THEIR life that is most important." People today may be "islands, or so we think" but they are still responsible for their actions!!! I don't care how someone killed somebody, THEY KILLED SOMEBODY AND NEED TO BE PUNISHED!!! Make 'em feel the pain everyday. When their sentence is completed, then treat them with the respect they've earned by doing their time. And I mean not treat them like a pariah by using a parolee designation. Treat them as regular citizens again with full priviledges.

This touchy, feely crap is how we have gotten here. There is no respect for a reason. Because it needs to be taught by respectful parents who teach their kids to respect everything. Respect begets respect. I don't respect people who don't respect me.

Sorry for the flame, but you really hit a sore spot with me.

---

Sean

>>Everyone thinks its THEIR road, THEIR time, THEIR life that is most important. Today, we are all islands, or so we think.

Detroit built it and we came....

The war is over, bikers lost and we ain't goin' back. <<

What a pathetic, defeatist attitude! So, just give up? HELL NO!
Become a $*it-stirrer, speak up, question why. Or, sit back and say poor me.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Sean: Hey, thanks for implying I'm the touchy/feelie type! :) That's a place I want to be before I die. Unfortunately, I still ACT like Arnold in a Grade B movie. :)

Anyway, I think you are on a roll here, Sean. With just a smidgen of reductio ad absurdem we can clean up this mess. Here are some suggestions:

1. Two speeding tickets in one year and you get life in prison;

2. Give a biker the finger and you get 15 years breaking rocks on Ryker Island, or similar venue.

3. Break a USAT rule against blocking or drafting and be suspended for life from the sport.

What's wrong with the above "sentences"? When and where does it stop? Will they achieve their intended goals?

But, the real problem with a long sentence for some old fart who plows into a group of bikers is it spends tax money on a remedy that doesn't work. In that particular case, Florida may not have been able to do anything that would have prevented the accident, but Florida can do quite a bit about its drivers-all its drivers-including elderly drivers. Drivers who get speeding tickets galore and drive without insurance or a license are routinely re-licensed because our economy needs licensed drivers, apparently, more than it needs safe streets. Older drivers with seriously impaired physical and mental skills are driving because they want their "freedom". Are you prepared to agree to strict and severe penalties on your right to drive based upon your driving record? I didn't think so.

Here's an example of how poorly government works and often misses the mark. In California, the people blame Gray Davis for their budget deficit, yet under Proposition 13 Warren Buffet pays about the same taxes for his $4,000,000 Laguna Beach home that I pay for my $150,000 home in Orlando. The people in California have been hoist on their own petard yet want to remove someone who is only tangentially related to the problem. Will they get courage under Arnold? Strap themselves to the alter of higher property taxes? I don't think so. Frankly, I can't stand Gray Davis. Anyone with that hairdo should be sweeping floors at Mickey Dees. But, removing him will do little to solve the problems. Since Californians won't face reality, they will simply have to wallow in their own stupidity. Now, if Warren Buffet had carte blanche power in California for about 5 years the people would be miserable and the budget would be balanced. That isn't going to happen.

So, herein lies the real problem with people of all stripes. We will rarely blame ourselves for our problems. It's always the other guy. Just because we blow through every stop sign in Ponte Vedra Beach during a brutal training ride doesn't make us part of the problem, does it? We are hated by Al Queda and about a billion Muslims and it isn't our fault, right? The French, Spanish, Germans, and most of the English think we are war-mongering jackals, but they are wrong of course. We are saving the world. No one likes you and it's THEIR fault, right?

Sean, if longer sentences actually could be proven to reduce crimes like the Cafferty, Florida, et al crimes I'd be all for them. I've been hit by cars and trucks SIX TIMES in Florida alone. Once in Virginia and NEVER in Ohio or North Carolina. A woman here in Florida almost killed me and the police officer said it was my fault BEFORE he got my facts and after he had let the unlicensed, uninsured drug addict leave the scene of the crime! (That guy may have been the dumbest cop in Florida.) I would have strangled that woman with my bare hands at one point. Sheezh. Giving the woman a long prison sentence after she finally kills me would have been just a trifle late for the State of Florida to act, at least from my own limited world view. :) Public policy needs to address the issue at a much different level. Kapish? This is one of many, many problems with governance.

These are difficult problems, but Americans like simplistic, feel good solutions. As a result we get government driven by media sound bites and knee jerk reactions. As James Bond said: "Governments change, but the lies [and problems] stay the same."

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Buy a Computrainer and train indoors. Don't get killed trying to be a hero on the roads. You don't fight the problem by riding on the highways, you exacerbate it. [Finding a creative solution in government would be a better approach, but that is a predicate to going back to riding on the highways.] If you know of a safe route, fine, but I doubt any route is safe if it is on a public highway.

Here in Florida about 30-40% of drivers are uninsured. About 20% have NO LICENSE. At any given time we have about 10-20% of the drivers who are legally impaired, i.e., drunk, on drugs, or medications, or otherwise impaired. Then we have the distracted drivers, which accounts for ALL the rest of us when driving. The problem with the problem is that it has been UNDERSTATED. We are at enormous risk every time we ride. I'm convinced that cars/trucks and bicycles just can't be mixed as a matter of public policy unless we are willing to make some fundamental changes in cars/trucks and our highways.

Until and unless the state legislatures find the money to implement SAFE bike lanes, I don't see things changing. For example, we have a bike lane in my neighborhood. It is a 3.25 mile loop. I have been hit once and almost hit about a thousand times riding that loop. It's a friggin' 3 foot bike lane and the cars can't and won't keep out of it! If I move out of it to avoid a car parked in it, the drivers (this is a 20-25mph zone) act as though I were riding a bike on I-4. The fingers and horns come out, bottles get thrown, etc.

This problem is enormous. Why do you think Dan is devoting "INK" to it? Why do you suppose so many posters here "relate"? Why did Lance devote almost an entire chapter of his new book to this problem? I love biking just as much as anyone, and I love riding outdoors most of all. This is not an easy prescription for me to write, but we ignore this risk at our peril. Today, in Florida, cars will probably kill one or two bicyclists. Across the country we will probably kill about 10 on a typical Saturday. Sobering thoughts....

This problem will not only kill us, it will kill the sports of triathlon and bicycle racing.

-Robert, who IS stirring the $*it

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Sounds like it's time for the walled community and golf carts.

Robert, somehow I feel that we are more similar than different. You make points that show thought and compassion as well as hardline dogma.

I agree that all situations are not black and white, but MANY shades of gray. All situations that you mention below, autos vs. cyclists, California Government and the US against the world, can all be handled differently, should be handled differently, even after the fact. Right the wrongs in injustice, even if it means letting people someone screwed up. I firmly believe in this approach. Look at Hollywood (don't get me wrong, they're screwed up. Just look at it), when a movie star has done something bad, they get right on the next talk show and confess their sins and ask for forgiveness from the public. There's just enough bleeding hearts to forgive them. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes. If not, we write them into Ally McBeal.

I was impressed to see President Bush, Condoleeza Rice and the CIA/FBI guy stand up and admit that what they left in the State of the Union address was errant, admitted it was wrong and accepted blame. Totally Hollywood, but it works. 'Tis easier to ask for forgivness than ask for permission. In a perfect world they wouldn't have had to apologize because the statement that got every media outlet's panties in a bunch wouldn't have been there.

Nothing is perfect, just decidedly unfinished.

---

Sean

I'll do golf after I've lost my touch at shuffleboard. 80 is about the right age for golf. :),

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Haystack: Yes, Bush, Rice, and Tenet did the right thing, sorta'. They got caught and someone 'fessed up. But, as with all these political stormlets, truth was the first casualty. I don't believe Bush any more than I believed Johnson, Nixon, Reagan or Clinton. Hell, I don't believe GW! (George Washington). :)

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Exactly. It's not perfect, never will be.

I'd rather be self-governed by elected officials any day of the week than live under the rule of some paranoid, psychotic dictator. California may be screwed-up, but we are telling Gray Davis he sucks and he's telling us we don't know what we're talking about, that we're making a mistake. Perhaps, but we're going to decide that for ourselves, not him. THAT'S self governance.

---

Sean

For the sake of all Californians, I hope they don't jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. $67 million dollars on a recall is a lot of money when you're broke. (I realize that this is fiscally conservative thinking and not entirely apropos for a sovereign state like Cali. :) )

I wouldn't spend $67 to trade a known politician for an unknown one. On the other hand, I think Arnold can lead the state. Will the Democrats in Sacramento follow or will they make his life hell? The Hispanic Dems are going to boil Arnold like a peanut and feed him to the monkeys. His relationship with Wilson may be his biggest liability after his support for Prop 19 (?).

Anyway, you guys have a mess and I hope something good comes of it.

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank