"You are making me bust out the flag again ......... "

Actually Gary, I think it's Tony Blair's ass that's on the line a lot more than anybody else if they're not found. He staked his political career on bucking the Euros and going with Bush. If it turns out that they are not found, it's bye bye at the next election.

"...not at the expense of some of our social programs such as national health insurance, etc..."

When one of my kids gets a hangnail on a Saturday, I call up one of my running buddies who is a Family Practice MD, and he says meet me at my office in 10 minutes. After he cuts out the hangnail, he might remember to send me a bill and he might not. In Canada, he would probably go to jail for that. If this country ever gets to the point where one cannot sell their own services at the time and price of their choosing and that of the free market, I'm checking out. Not willing to trade freedom for security. It is a false promise and one that all the founding fathers (now a non-PC term) warned us against. Canada, Belgium, and France can afford socialized medicine because we (USA) subsidize their defense. If it wasn't for us (US) you'd all be spreckin ze duetch. Not a rahrah, my country love it or leave type either, just not some America-last europhile. I am sick and tired of seeing pictures of 62,000 crosses and Stars of David in Flanders Fields while the French stick up for some murdering bastard. If there were no WMD, then who gassed all those Kurds? Did they do it to themselves? WMD was only one of about 10 reasons President Bush gave for invading Iraq. Most of the others have turned out true, if not worse than imagined. But, Mr. Jennings (another Canadian) never reports that, or the fact that 95% of that country is glad as hell we are there.

"Give me the creators, innovators, producers, scientists, and engineers of the world anytime."

Gotta agree 100% with that. But I think some of the great writers and artists could also step up to the podium with them.

I think we should end this thread right here:

"If it wasn't for us (US) you'd all be spreckin ze duetch."

Since my dad was a 20 yr. old Canadian Spitfire pilot fying for the RAF during WWII, I definately have to take issue with that. The US came into WWII quite late and then only because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Had Japan, then an ally of Germany, not attacked Pearl Harbor, it's quite conceivable that the US may have stayed out of the war. The US coming into the war was a major factor in favor of the allies winning it, but the US did not win WWII all by itself. In fact, far from it. I guess there's the Hollywood version and then what really happened.

Agreed. I think the inference (that you're missing here) is that there is not enough recognition given to the thinkers of the world and too much given to the destroyers.

And where did you get in this thread that "liberals" somehow harbor disdain toward creators, innovators, producers, scientists, and engineers of the world?

I love how people will start a sentence with "I love how you liberals ..." or "the liberal left" does this or that; and then they proceed to fill in their own thoughts about what a liberal thinks of a conservative despite no evidince in the thread to the contrary.

To paraphrase a true innovator, and poet and playwrite, "The triathlete protests too much, methinks."

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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!

9/11 does not give Carte Blanche in world affairs.

"Who watches the Watchmen?"

I think this thread should die, but will respond one more time to Cerveloguy. Your beefs with the US vis-a-vis WWII and Iraq are logically inconsistent. On one hand, you criticize us for not attacking a madman (Hitler) soon enough, but on the other hand, you also criticize us for attacking a similar madman (Saddam) too soon. The parallells between the two (religious oppression, genocide, attacking neighboring countries, method of rising to power, appeasement by other countries, etc.) are startling to me. Yes, there were isolationists, pacifists, and Nazi sympathizers (Joseph Kennedy/Charles Lindbergh) who tried to keep us out of the war. History proved them wrong. My utmost respects to your father. As I am a former USMC aviator, I feel a kinship to him. However brave their efforts, after Dunkirk, the Brits and their allies were fighting a defensive war, doomed to be lost with no plan or ability to regain the offensive, until the entry of the US. So no, we didn't win it alone, but without us it would have been lost. My knowledge of military history doesn't come from Hollywood. As a former Marine, I despise all Hollywood depictions of war and the military.

>Thomas Payne, Walt Whitman, Thomas Jefferson, Harriet Beecher-Stowe, Frederick Douglass, Langston Hughes and John >Steinbeck,

I doubt any of these folks would have been triathletes!

"I think this thread should die"

At least we finally agree on something. And no hard feelings. The right to disagree is the wonderful thing about living in a democracy. I'm sure that's something else we both agree on. I'd go for a ride and drink a beer with you any time.

...tomorrow when I go to work to teach US Navy EOD Technicians how to disarm underwater ordnance I'll remember that they (and myself) do this job so you can stay at home with your slippers on and write soppy poems. You are type B, we are type A. You're the guy on the $5000 Litespeed Blade who started in a wave 10 minutes ahead of me just to watch my Cannondale rip past you at mile 2...I'll have had at least 2 beers before you finish. It takes all types...I'll die smiling, you won't ever be happy...feel free to move to France. I'll help you pack.

Hooyah America!

tomorrow, when I got to work and teach and do research with students on how to design and implement better softwares, I'll remember that they will do this job so that when you guys use technology, you know that the software will not be faulty at the wrong time, for the wrong occasion, that no image recognition software is going to mistake a civilian airplane for a mig, that when you install new intrusion detection systems on a DoD network, it will not miss half the attacks...and I do that for the US not for France...
indeed, it takes all types.

Francois

PS Gordo Byrn writes poems...let me know when you blast past him on the bike.

Settle down, Francis

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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!

...tomorrow when I go to work to teach US Navy EOD Technicians how to disarm underwater ordnance I'll remember that they (and myself) do this job so you can stay at home with your slippers on and write soppy poems.

No disrespect intended but I think, above all, you're doing the job because you want to.

Yeah, that's what I eat for my pre-race meal!

I guess it's better than Sugar Pops...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Minor quibble, but Cheerios are produced by General Mills

In response to the direction the thread rapidly took, I offer one lesson from 911, and that is that anyone who does his/her job with passion, dedication, and intelligence should be appreciated. The NYPD and NYFD elicited such a strong outpouring of appreciation because they were regular people who risked their lives to help people. They were and are heroes, and heroes come in many stripes, including but not limited to military or fire/police department uniforms.

With regard to WMD - http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/rydbom.asp - please read that Cerveloguy - who cares about WMD? And didn't you say you are Canadian and live in the states. Like, shut-UP dude.

Isn't this the French flag?

Good point!