I have really enjoyed reading your posts where you just parrot back the same old cliches about Conservatives. They are beholden to the rich, hate gays, minorities, children after they are born, want to close nursing homes, end Medicare, blah, blah, blah. Can't you guys come up with anything new?

Your latest is that this is undemocratic. I am going to try to take your thinking out of the box. First, CA has been completely disenfranchised in Congressional elections. Your party saw to it that the district lines were draw to ensure zero competivitive elections in the entire state. Second, I am going to go out on a limb here, but the Democrats solution is perfectly obvious. Davis needs to resign so the Lt. Gov. can take over and avoid an election that could actually bring a Republican to state wide office.

"Gee Gray, I was shocked, absolutely shocked to get this report today detailing all your fund raising abuses. This is serious. If this were to get out no telling how many prosecuters would be after your butt. You know, if you aren't up for election, this would probably all blow over. So really Mr. Toricelli, I mean, Mr. Davis, isn't it about time you quit? Why don't you take this gun, I mean, pen into that office and do the right thing?"

Stop swallowing the spin and think for yourself. It is less painful than an IM, honest.

Another thing to consider is that without CA, FL, and TX Jerry Springer wouldn't have a TV show!

Is it true that due to ballot initiatives only 10% of the California budget is under the control of the governor and the legislature, while at the same time the voters have limited the amount of tax the state government can levy?

I read this yesterday and if true it seems that California's voters have no one to blame but themselves.

And I likewise have enjoyed the way you and others in this forum parrot back cliches about liberals. They are whining knee-jerk pansys who have their head in the clouds and blame everyone but themselves for what's wrong with the world. But it's not the liberals who are trying to point the finger at someomone for the State's ills.

You see, we already voted for our governor. And like it or not, we should be stuck with him until another election rolls around. Barring hard evidince of illegal activity or impeachable offenses on Gray Davis' part, a bunch of out-of-state hired guns accosting shoppers leaving California Wal-Marts is a democratic process only the Bath Party or maybe Liberia could be proud of.

Don't like Davis? Tough crap. You lost the ELECTION last year.

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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!

You should endeavor to be more accurate. I hadn't even posted to this thread before so I certainly didn't parrot back cliches.

Actually I agree that California should keep their terrible governor. People get the leaders they deserve and California definitely deserves Davis and that legislature of yours along with the Ninth Circuit judges. It is not like CA didn't know who they were electing or that they didn't have a choice. The large deficit disclosed after the election was about as shocking as the discovery by Claude Reins of gambling in Bogart's bar. We are in agreement there.

The part about asking voters for signatures pursuant to the recall laws had the obligatory reference to the Baath party and Liberian civil war which was good, but you forgot about the comparison of the petition drive leader to Hitler, his volunteers to Nazis, and the entire Republican party to Stalin as the play book requires. Don't forget to work in the part about Xenophobic racists wanting to reinstitute slavery either. You can't use just some of the mantra. You need the whole thing or it loses its effectiveness.

Don't like the way your political system is set up? Tough crap. The "hired guns" got way more than the constitutionally required minimum number of citizens to sign the initiative. Don't like that? CHANGE YOUR CONSTITUTION!

"... have their head in the clouds and blame everyone but themselves for what's wrong with the world..."

How many hours did you spend in front of Wal-Mart convincing people NOT to sign? If the Sidi fits...

First, I'd like you to quote the endless parrotting of those who contest your statements in this string. Aside from a comment here or there, as best as I can see there has been no cliches tossed about in this string (for the most part, on either side of the argument). As one who has probably posted the most staements contesting your positions, I'd like to see my parroting of the same old cliches.

Second, you state that we elected the governor so we should be stiuck with him! What kind of masochistic thinking is that? Just because we elected him (I use the "we" loosely here), doesn't mean we waived our right to remove him. Our state constitution clearly provides for the right of a recall. The California population, via a democratic process, gave support for the removal of Davis. This guy is leading a failure - like any leader who is failing, he is a prime target for removal and the people have spoken.

Also, as previosuly pointed out, Davis is not to blame for all the state ills (certainly a substantial part)...but he is to take the blame. He is the leader, the CEO, the top-dog and under the "buck stops here" theory, he must accept the blame for what goes wrong during his watch. That is the principal behind a recall. Don't like it...tough crap...amend the state constitution.

Oh, by the way, thanks for not making any ad homein statements by refering to those who supported the recall as "hired guns"; "Bath Party members", "Liberians" and "Wal-Mart shoppers" (hey, why hide behind that inference - why not just call them uneducated trash?) Nothing like an emotional mud-slinging argument to revealthe strength of a position.

Alan

You are correct, SF, you didn't stoop to liberal cliches.

I made the Wal Mart reference because that's where I saw the petitioners. If you are making the assumption that people who shop at Wal Mart are "uneducated trash," those are your feelings, not mine. I personally am always on the lookout for falling prices.

And as far as the Bath Party and Liberia references are concerned, they were used in order to illustrate my assertion that the recall effort is in large part being subverted by a man who spent $1.4 million of his own money to fund a recall. And in doing so, to my way of thinking, has strong armed the will of the people.

As for watering down the argument, you're guilty of it as well by adding your spin (like the above) to my comments in order to minimize my point.

I'm done talking about this now. We're not going to change each other's viewpoint. But I fear you may be correct on one point: There is no unity on the left. Either that or the slowtwitch boards are a liberal-free zone. :-)

Let's talk about drag co-efficients and Lance and Tyler some more.

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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!

"Let's talk about drag co-efficients and Lance and Tyler some more. "

I don't know if Slowman allows that type of discussion here, but we can give it a try.