As a lawyer, a dad of young kids, and a triathlete, I would say yes to both of your questions.

Mr. Ed:

You are not being paranoid - but what a great idea. That is an awesome way to introduce youth to our sport and get them out from behind Gameboys and PlayStations.

I am also an attorney so a bit of pro bono advice - anytime someone puts on an athletic event (no matter what the age of teh participants) there is potential exposure. There are things you can do to minimize the risk. (1) require all parents of the kids to sign waivers/releases (standard ones on-line) (2) make sure the course is safe and that all kids have a certain minimum level of training (i.e. - no traffic on the course, kids all know how to swim, CPR trained person on the scene, etc.) and (3) contact the USAT. I believe that the USAT may have insurance available for race directors and even a grant program to assist first-time race directors (yes, you are entering the title of "race director").

Good luck!!!

Alan

I was recruited as a last minute lifeguard at a similar kid's trathlon just before IM Lake Placid. One kid would have surely drown without our help. I couldn't have done an event like that if I were the local bike shop owner. I would have been too scared of liability. If everyone thought the way I did, nothing would ever happen for the kids. Thank the lawyers for "protecting" us.

If you are broke no one will bother suing you. If you aren't, you would be nuts to do something like this without insurance, probably through USAT. Regardless, take all reasonable and unreasonable precautions. We had about one life guard for every five kids for the maybe 50 yard swim. It seemed pretty silly until one girl needed help. No problem, but if three kids needed help at the same time, it would have been a challenge.

I wouldn't do this, but I hope you do. I hope not everyone thinks like me.

Sad that it has come to the point of worrying about losing the house for putting on a casual event for kids. Good luck, though, Mr. Ed. I think it's a wonderful idea to introduce kids to something as positive as triathlon.

Come on...we are talking about "Kiddie pools" and tricycles. Does this concern mean that you need to get insurance if you are playing baseball or football in the yard with kids?

I dont at all blame the laywers...they dont hire themselves.

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Kiddie pools and trikes sure minimize the risk...but do not eliminate it. A kid "dives" into a kiddie pool; or a swimmer gets kicked and no one is looking; a trike goes off the sidewalk into the path of a car; some less-than-moral individual grabs a kid and takes off when no one is watching; etc. Far-fetched? sure; almost certain not to happen? definitely. Would a parent sue if such a thing happened? Very possible.

Yes, our litigation society has made the it near impossible to do anything. Playgrounds are being shut down; school sports are being severly cut-back; "fun" events like this are endangered. Lawyers seeking 25%-50% of a recovery, insurance companies denying even valid claims or refusing to pay until injured parties are forced to sue; and society seeking the get-rich paycheck are to blame.

But, races can still be held. Just run a safe "race" and get insurance. Let me know if you want help with a release/waiver, I'd be happy to help out.

Alan

Tonight was the big event. All the kids had a good time.

I exposed myself to the legal risk and skipped the waivers. I did go to each parent and got their verbal permission.

6 kids entered, all 6 finished. Half received their medals, then went to play on the swings. The other half decided to do it again.

Final results: Jacob (age 8), Jay Jay (age 10), Jenna (age 7) Brian (age 3), Katie (age 5), Scarlet (age 9). Katie's time was 9 minutes. I was cheering too much to get any other splits.

Thanks to all for good, solid advice, even though I didn't follow most of it.

Mr. Ed (Brian's dad)

Hey Mr. Ed and Others,

If you all are concerned about liability for things such as hosting a neighborhood triathlon, among other things, look into umbrella insurance. This type of coverage is specifically designed to be more encompassing than your basic homeowner's coverage and usually carries a greater limit. For example, my homeowner's coverage is at 250K and is riddled with exclusions. For an additional $250/month, I tacked on a million dollar umbrella policy. This policy covers accidents in my yard (like your triathlon), covers many incidents outside of my yard but arising from me or my family (like my wife's very crappy driving) and even covers my damn chow (who has a tendency to escape and likes to nibble). I've seen umbrellas go as a high as 5 million from decent carriers.

PS. I'm not an insurance agent. I'm one of those nice lawyers that is also trying to protect myself from sue-happy people hiring sue-happy lawyers.

Robert

Do you mean your umbrella costs $250/year?

Another benefit that some umbrella's provide is unlimited legal defense regardless of the potential claim payout. This benefit alone makes the policy worthwhile. The average cost for an umbrella in my state is around $200/year (it depends on # of cars you insure, # of homes, # of youthful drivers). In my area, that is the same price you pay for 1 hour of legal consultation with a good attorney.

Without the umbrella policy, an insurance company can pay your policy limit and walk away. They've fulfilled their obligation...

Also, Robert you should be REAL careful with your chow. I am a dog person so don't get mad...this is the insurance agent in me talking.... If your dog goes from nibbling to biting....good luck finding any insurance company to cover you. If you do find one, you will pay through the nose for crap coverage. I have two labs and am very, very careful with them even though they are extremely gentle dogs.

---

Andy

'You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Thinsg Are As They Are.'

Great advice. This is a no brainer for anyone with more possessions than a crappy old bike. I am also one of those lawyers-but I make my living defending claims (which still makes me a bad guy since I am hired by insurance companies-trust me-most people hate us more than the sue-happy lawyers-and we don't make near the money). Most companies will, however, make you have a relatively substantial primary policy. My company, for example, will not sell you an unbrella if you only have a $100,000 policy-must bump to a $300,000- so there is some cost in addition to the umbrella-still a no brainer.

Andy, is the umbrella likely to cover my excess sports equipment that I'm learned in last week's thread on the garage accident may be excluded from my homeowner's policy? And would they cover theft? My most significant concern is someone lifting our two bikes, 2 sets of skis and/or my 4 fly rods from my garage. I have both a homeowners policy and an umbrella and was thinking about looking into some sort of a Personal Articles rider for all that stuff. I know I need to read the policies and/or check with my agent, but I'd like a reality check on what's typical so I can dig deeper if what I read/hear is different.

Hey Mr. Mike,

The umbrella will only cover you for liability, not property. You will need to get the personal property inland marine coverage for your items of extraordinary value.

Hope this helps, Andy

---

Andy

'You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Thinsg Are As They Are.'

Oops. Yes, Andy, $250 per month, not year! It was a bit on the early side when I was typing - I was sipping my coffee getting ready for an early morning spin. And yes, too, the Chow is a problem. I inherited him. My wife will bend over backward for me, my hobbies, my work, etc., but the blasted dog is non-negotiable. Worse, the mongrel is 13 years old and looks and acts like 4. I'm thinking 20 years perhaps, unless some unfortunate accident were to befall him. . .

MrEd:



Congrats to you and congrats to all the kids. But also, thank you for taking a risk to not only promote our sport to the next generation, but to help kids get exposed to a real fun event.



Alan