I did the IMFL run in 4:18 last year; my longest training run was about 15 miles. I don't plan to go over 2 1/2 hours this year training for the same race and I'm hoping for a much better split.

If you want to improve your run split beyond what 2 1/2 hour training runs will give you, bike more! I definitely believe more base cycling not only reduces the fatigue you begin the run with significantly, but also carries over to running endurance without as much pounding in training!

See you there!

The general guideline I've heard is 3 hours, not 2 1/2, as the longest run. I've done a 3 hour run prepping for Vineman, and plan to do another this weekend. I didn't feel totally trashed after the last one at all. Gordo, on his webite and in his book, also recommends 3 hour runs as the max.

The general guideline for standalone marathon training is 3 hours. Until this year, I had always used that for both marathon AND ironman training. It served me well for the 54 marathons I've done (PB 2:54). It did not serve me well for my previous 3 Ironman finishes. The reason, as has been explained to me by my own coach and others I've had the pleasure of working with this year, is that the ironman marathon has less to do with run endurance than it does with bike strength and sheer force of will through pain. Ironman is a long day, no matter how you stack it. And the training is even longer. In order to get enough of the right kinds of training in, you have to minimize your recovery NEEDS while maximizing your recovery time. A three hour run takes far, far more time to recover from than a 2 1/2 hour run or a 7-8 hour overdistance bike. You will gain far more toward your ironman endurance by focusing on bike time in the go-all-day pace. The farther you push your bike endurance out there, the far less likely you will be completely spent by the time you hit the marathon. Its true that you will build some run fitness with those runs, but if you use yourself up on the bike or get injured its all for naught. Training runs over 2 1/2 hours become lessons in pain management. You can get that on the bike at far less recovery cost. Beware of the stacked up cost of these runs you are doing. It can sneak up on you too, if you have a high pain threshold. Folks like that (of which I am one) can be running along fine doing 3 hour runs with little perceived "trashiness" and the next thing you know you are either injured or you find yourself glued to the bed not wanting to get out of it. Trust me on this, unless you are in Gordo and Molina's epic training realm, 2 1/2 hour runs will do everything you need for ironman. This is one case where you don't have to do the distance in order to make the distance on race day. DO stack up some 7-8 hour bike rides. DON'T stack up the three hour runs, no matter how good you feel.

I have done over a dozen ironman... everything from 3:55 - 4:45 on the run on 2:45 - 3:00 hr long runs... The one thing I have changed in my prep for the last 2 ironman is go for 2:30 max on my long days and then add a 30 min easy jog (low end of arorbic zone) later on in the same day... seems to work for me and is less stressful on the body than going out on a 3 hour long run. I agree with TriBriGuy that the bike sets up your run. The less the bike takes out of you the fresher you will be to tackle the run in the race. My faster run splits (if thats what I may call them... let me be a legend in my own mind) have always been in years where I had a ton of long rides on the bike in training. So having a ton of base training on the bike will (in theory) result in a stronger run... (read:faster) It may not be much faster but you will not be as beat up at the end.

Shawn

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Shawn Skene

'Gordo, on his webite and in his book, also recommends 3 hour runs as the max.'

Don't know about his website but on page 132 of Going Long he writes;

"The marginal benefit of a run over 2.5 hours is outweighed by the extended recovery period that is required"

I am doing my first iron distance race this fall (GFT). I have been trying to get in at least one 6-8 hr bike ride each week--except for my recovery weeks. In a post on the GFT website someone suggested that the max someone should ride should be 6 hrs. What is your thinking on the longest bike ride one should do?



Also: What about long bricks: Like 5 hrs bike + 2 hr runs?

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Jon Bergmann
http://jonbergmann.com

Man, that seems like alot. I'm doing IM-FL and plan to do two to four 6-7 hour rides, but not every week. I'd love to hear what others have to say since this is my first go at this.

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Marcel

I've wanted to start a thread on this same topic. I'm very curious what everybody's longest workouts are in their IM buildup.

I'm 5 weeks out from IM Wisconsin, and just did an 88/11 brick the other day and felt great. I've been sticking to the plan of no runs over 2 1/2 hours, and it's worked great so far, although part of me worries about not doing any 20-plus mile runs.

The 88/11 is the longest workout I have planned, although I'm gonna do a 130-mile ride next week. I'm getting to be a big believer in the bike-training-helps-your-long-run theory. I'd love to hear about everybody's biggest planned IM workouts.

--Big EE