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Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > Darn....Got dropped tonight.

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Darn....Got dropped tonight.
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cerveloguy
Jul 22, 03 19:00
Post #1 of 13 (2083 views)
Went on our roadie group ride tonight. All the fast guys were out so we were clipping along fairly quickly. Our group is a mix of racers, roadies and tri-geeks(on road bikes) and we ride together three times a week. Tonight was our fast "drop the other guy" ride. Thursday is our hill ride and Sunday morning our long ride.

I finished my pull at the front and then moved over to let the file past for me to take my place at the back of the pace line. Just at that moment we hit a hill and as the file had more momentum than I did, I dropped back going up the hill. Once we crested the hill I was out of the aerodynamics of the group pace line. I got down down on my Jammer GT aero bars and kicked as hard as possible in an atempt to get back in the line, but once you're out of the draft, you're done.

It's not the first time that I've been dropped, but often I can hang with the front group.

Riding with roadies is the best way and most fun way to train. These folks make you work and your bike skills become so much more developed when riding in a group than if riding solo. Don't understand why some tri-geeks would want to train solo on the bike.

Just curious as to how many of you fellow tri-geeks are also roadie group riders?
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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john
Jul 22, 03 19:16
Post #2 of 13 (2066 views)
"Don't understand why some tri-geeks would want to train solo on the bike."

Because that's how we race.
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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pedaller
Jul 22, 03 19:26
Post #3 of 13 (2060 views)
Groups rides are great. There's something to a solo ride too, though, for either exploring new routes (enjoyment) or racing against oneself over the same route (measured motivation). When a group is too fast or too slow, a group ride is not ideal. You need to get the right group of people. The group I go with can vary quite a bit depending on who's out.
By the way, I'd guess you got dropped because you were tired from your pull and then had to take on a hill; they, on the other hand, were fresh. I doubt momentum had much to do with it. It happened to me on my last group ride, too -- I had been breaking a brutal headwind for them, and then they hammered it up a long hill. That's the thanks you get!! It's great fun. Can't wait to go do some of that again.
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [pedaller] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude
Jul 22, 03 20:24
Post #4 of 13 (2029 views)
 took a few years off of training and then hurt my IT band and was unable to run for a year. I started to bike race and it was the most fun I've had in team sports other than my college XC days. My bike times improved and are still faster then when I was training full time.
I'd advocate bike racing & group rides for any triathlete looking for better bike splits. You'll learn to be a smarter rider in the bike leg, corner better as well as put serious time on people through corners since the majority of triathletes corner poorly and handle your bike better. It all = faster bike legs while expending less energy. I'm a tri-roadie!
Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax
Jul 23, 03 5:55
Post #5 of 13 (1940 views)
I almost exclusively train with a group, although I would hesitate to call myself a triahlete. more along the lines of a former swimmer turned cyclist who does tris on occasion.

One good thing about riding with a group is that you get instant feedback about how strong you are relative to others on given terrains or conditions. For example, riding solo you might feel stronger on hills than flats, but in a group you can experience how strong you are relative to others.

One thing though, the group I ride with is more of a training group. It is not all group rides / pacelines. Some of our workouts are done in pairs or solo, but we'll warm up and warm down together. It is actually much easier to push yourself when doing 8 minute intervals @94% when you have a carrot in front of you.

Jason
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [john] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck
Jul 23, 03 6:10
Post #6 of 13 (1927 views)
 

"Because that's how we race."

Then why are the best time trialers in the world road cyclists?

Seriously, the BEST approach from my experience is a mixture of solo riding and group riding. Group rides with serious road cyclists are great training sessions so are solo rides or rides with small groups of like minded triathletes.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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tom
Jul 23, 03 6:26
Post #7 of 13 (1914 views)
"Don't understand why some tri-geeks would want to train solo on the bike. "

Because I love the time that I spend in training. Why would I ruin something I love so much by spending that time with roadies given the attitude that they have? (all that I have met anyway)
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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john
Jul 23, 03 6:41
Post #8 of 13 (1901 views)
"Then why are the best time trialers in the world road cyclists?"

But a lot of the best time trialers come from an INDIVIDUAL pursuit background. The main reason most of those guys race on the road is because that is where the money is. Crossover TT'ers like Honchar, Bodrogi, Boardman, McGee, etc. all make better money than TT-only guys like Obree, Dangerfield, or Hutch.

I'm just a single data point and I certainly don't have Mr. Fleck's palmares, but my cycling got a lot better when I quit doing group rides and switched to intervals and hill repeats. I think it's that old specificity-in-training principle. I still do the occasional group ride for fun or social reasons, but they are not my key workouts.
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [tom] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck
Jul 23, 03 6:50
Post #9 of 13 (1893 views)
I agree with you that certain road cyclists can be somewhat arrogant. However, in my experience triathletes can be there own worst enemies when trying to ride with these folks. They show up for the road ride on the fully tricked out time trial machine. They show up for the road ride nearly naked. They don't ride well in a group. They don't corner well. There seat mounted bottles eject right into the following cyclist . . an so on. Not that there is anything wrong with any of this, but you won't mix well with the roadies if any of the previous happens and they will be naturally skeptical and critical of you.

Still, it's an opportunity for a great work out and should be PART of every triathletes training plan along with solo rides, hills and intervals.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [john] [ In reply to ]
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mr. mike
Jul 23, 03 6:54
Post #10 of 13 (1890 views)
I ride with a group of roadies about 2 x per month on their weekly group ride. I'd probably go more, but sometimes I just can't make it from the office to where they meet by 6:00.

This group isn't very competitive, so I don't detect much of a 'tude. It probably helps that my wife is a regular club member and rides with them 6-8 x per month. Depending on who shows up, there are up to 3-4 guys in a "fast" group of up to 20 who I can't hang with. In that case, I have fun sitting on their shoulders and matching the first couple of surges and then trying to round up 1-2 others to try to chase. If those guys aren't there, me and few others will usually try to get away.

I don't know how much it helps/hurts tri training, but it's fun, and isn't that why most of us are doing this? From a technical standpoint, I guess those rides are "unstructured intervals". I probably push it harder try to sit on those fast guys near the top of a long climb when I expect them to jump than I'm ever able to get myself to push it on my own.
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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martytram
Jul 23, 03 7:06
Post #11 of 13 (1883 views)
There's nothing better than a group ride for intense speed building workouts, provided everyone is about the same level or a little above yours. It's also so much easier to push yourself with others around.

However, there is a time and place for everything and sometimes group rides can be counterproductive. If your goal is a long endurance ride, you shoud probably head out alone or with no more that 2 other people. Otherwise, the group ride slowly descends into a hammer session and you're wasted before you get 3/4 of the way. That or you wind up not wirking as hard cause you're sitting in someone's draft most of the time.

Variety is the spice of life sez I.
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Todd Scott
Jul 23, 03 16:54
Post #12 of 13 (1735 views)
...and that's why you should end your pull at the top of hills and not at the bottom. Or take a shorter pull, get back in line, and recover before the hill.
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Re: Darn....Got dropped tonight. [Todd Scott] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy
Jul 23, 03 17:37
Post #13 of 13 (1720 views)
."..and that's why you should ...."

How true. I learned something again last night. That's my point about how much better your bike skills become when riding with roadies. It's quite phenomenal riding with experienced roadie group riders and guys with road race experience. They know all the little tricks and don't mind running two inches off each others wheels at 40-50 km in a group. Some of these guys are quite a bit younger than myself and the older ones have years of experience over me, so I'm the neophyte that's still learning.
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