Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [deh20] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
[/quote]

Someone else mentioned this, but I'd consider the option of a "Kona hopeful" wave that goes at 8:30 or 9:00. There would be a lot more traffic on the bike and run, but presumably thinned out by the time the faster racers started overtaking. Personally, I think it's great that Ironman is for everyone, but I'd rather toe the line directly with the people I'm competing against. Rather like the elite amateur division. WTC could even require a qualifying time in a half-distance race (although they'd probably insist it be a WTC 70.3....)

Downside would be a huge gap between the pros and first amateur finishers.

But letting Kona hopefuls (with different wetsuit criteria) start even 10 minutes before everyone else would certainly improve crowding in the swim.[/quote]
I had mentioned this before myself. There is no reason why they cannot do waves of maybe 750-1000 and start them 5-10 minutes apart going from fastest to slowest. You would seed yourself based upon your estimated swim time and be grouped according to color. So if you are in the "Green" group and you started at 7:05 you have until 12:05 to finish. I think this would allow them to make the groups safer and more manageable and still have that mass start appeal.


____________________
Titanium faces rock!
Quote Reply
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wheww!!! Couldn't believe I read through this entire thing!

Dev,

I'll put in my little bit of perspective despite being late into this thread. I did IMLP this year (and last) in a wetsuit and I felt this year's swim was a little bit more "rough" than last year. IN MY OPINION, however, it had little to do with a WS / No WS race. As a bit of a backgrounder, I am a lifetime swimmer and I have done my share of Half Irons, and many open water swim events (non ironman) in the past decade. I'm not a fast swimmer (bad shoulder) but I am quite comfortable in the water and under any condition I have never felt I would "drown." In these events, there have been swimmers on WS and without. In my opinion, the character of these races didn't change much by the ratio of WS and non-WS users. It has more to do with density.

As for IMLP, here are my experiences on both years:

IMLP 2010: It was my first Ironman. Wore a wetsuit and started 2 minutes after the official start. Had a fairly smooth swim but it certainly involved the the occasional bumping, nudging and hitting but I totally expected this in an IM swim. I kind of expected the battlefest in the water due to my open water race experiences. 1st lap was 38 mins (36 if you net out the 2 minute wait). 2nd lap was a little smoother and got out at 38 minutes again. Fairly consistent swim, mostly (about 70%) swimming close to the cable.

IMLP 2011: Wore a wetsuit and started 1 minute 45 seconds after the official start. From the start, the swim was "rough". Lots and lots of bodies and traffic - both WS clad and non-WS. I was far from the cable but felt a much higher density of swimmers. Couldn't figure out why it was a lot "rougher" but I discounted that (like in 2010) to be part of an Ironman swim experience. Got into the usual bumping, nudging and kicking. 1st lap was 38 minutes (would be 36 if you net out the wait). 2nd lap was not much different than the first lap (38 minutes). Very dense swimming, and this had no correlation to WS / no WS swimmers.

Conclusion: The roughness during these events is more correlated to the density of the swimmers in the water. With a higher density comes that more blows and hits. Once you accept that as part of any open water swimming event and shrugged it off, it won't be much of a big deal. That's my 4 cents on this.


.

.........................__0.............0
...................._.-\ <,_.........</\_
.....~_.o^,....(...)./.(...)......._/\...
Quote Reply
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [paxfobiscum] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Conclusion: The roughness during these events is more correlated to the density of the swimmers in the water. With a higher density comes that more blows and hits. Once you accept that as part of any open water swimming event and shrugged it off, it won't be much of a big deal. That's my 4 cents on this.


Exactly...and I'm going to postulate that the mixing of wetsuit and non-wetsuit swimmers on the same course at the same time is THE NUMBER ONE REASON that the swimmers at Texas and Lake Placid experienced more than the usual contact this year.

People on this thread who didn't experience either swim try to think logically about why it would make such a difference.

Well you can wonder why logically rubbernecking causes so much havoc in a congested road of vehicles...when only a minority of people actually want to slow down and look...

So you have 2 groups of swimmers together that swim differently and have a different comfort level...and you get a situation where a minority of swimmers get in difficulty (get pushed down, stop, check up, etc.)...so what does that do to the flow of traffic...yep, you guessed it...slows everybody down, gets everybody more upset, etc...just like with auto traffic/rubbernecking

Bottom line is that all the theories and trying to understand etc. don't change the fact that it just doesn't work!


Coach at KonaCoach Multisport
Quote Reply
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
late to this party cause I was sweating my ass off in 95 degress heat riding over 500 miles last week while eating such Iowan delicacies such as pork chops on a stick, walking tacos (don't ask), and supporting the corn growers of the midwest (RAGBRAI) anyone?).

anyhoo, did IMTX. i wore a suit only because I had round deux of back surgery in February and had not recovered my core stability enough to allow me to kick while swimming. i also planned to dropout about 80 miles into the ride because again, I knew my lumbar was not ready for more, so wearing the suit was an easy choice.

personally the IMTX swim was not a shitshow for me. i had probably the least contact in any IM swim of the 9 I've done so far. considering my back situation, i was very nervous about someone hitting or grabbing my leg during the swim, so i was conscientious to stay clear of the melee. i was in the water about 10 minutes before the start and swam out enough from the shore. what stunned me was the folks entering the water in the non-wetsuit queue wearing WS?!?!. i floated there watching athlete after athlete cross the wrong timing mat. furthermore, i could not believe the HUGE number of people still lolly gagging on shore when the gun went off. what were they thinking? wetsuit and non-wetsuit alike, just walking casually to the water and the race was on.

anyhow, i had free and clear water all the way. even in the canal of death. i was out in 1:12 (PW swim, but hey, i swam like 10 times before the race).

i would like to say i was worried about the possibility of dehydration of wearing a full wetsuit, in such "warm" water, but i was totally comfortable in that 78 degree water in a full wetsuit. i was shocked at how comfortable it was. Dev, you know me, i weigh like 120 pounds and get cold really easily (hence my shitty ski race times in under 25 degrees :) so it a little daunting to think of swimming in colder water and being in there 10 minutes longer. i guess i get to find out next year.

if WTC is going to continue this wesuit rule, i would support splitting the wearers from the non wearers, to eliminate the possibility of cheating for Kona slots (is WTC going by the honor system here, or are the reviewing video to ensure those that take slots really did not wear a WS?) and to make it less dangerous for all. i have to admit that as someone prone to hypothermia, i'd like to see the 78 degree come back.

I have worked with Charlie Crawford at USAT as a Ref, and also ref'fed 70.3 Lake Stevens and Boise, so I know the guys there too. let me know if i can help.

PS. I hope you are healing well. Best Wishes, Dude!

Sue
Quote Reply
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [Terra-Man] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Terra-Man wrote:
Conclusion: The roughness during these events is more correlated to the density of the swimmers in the water. With a higher density comes that more blows and hits. Once you accept that as part of any open water swimming event and shrugged it off, it won't be much of a big deal. That's my 4 cents on this.


Exactly...and I'm going to postulate that the mixing of wetsuit and non-wetsuit swimmers on the same course at the same time is THE NUMBER ONE REASON that the swimmers at Texas and Lake Placid experienced more than the usual contact this year.

People on this thread who didn't experience either swim try to think logically about why it would make such a difference.

Well you can wonder why logically rubbernecking causes so much havoc in a congested road of vehicles...when only a minority of people actually want to slow down and look...

So you have 2 groups of swimmers together that swim differently and have a different comfort level...and you get a situation where a minority of swimmers get in difficulty (get pushed down, stop, check up, etc.)...so what does that do to the flow of traffic...yep, you guessed it...slows everybody down, gets everybody more upset, etc...just like with auto traffic/rubbernecking

Bottom line is that all the theories and trying to understand etc. don't change the fact that it just doesn't work!

I think your thoughts encompass the universal consensus of those that went without wetsuit.

Also to those who did wear wetsuit and are seemingly opposed to a "competitor's wave" 10 or 15 minutes early and wrecking the "legacy of the mass start that makes Ironman unique", keep in mind that even if you take out the non wetsuit folks, you still end up with a "MASS START" of 1800-2200 people. View it more like a small wave start for pros, a larger wave start of Kona Qual and podium hopefulls and then a MASS start race of folks in rubber :-)

Sto, glad you back is doing well. Feel free to talk to Charlie on this topic. It would be greatly appreciated.

I doubt that this issue is about to come up in another Ironman until Texas next year, unless of course Wisconson stays really really hot. Regensburg will be pretty clear cut...either everyone will be in or not in wetsuits, per the rules that we have seen in Frankfurt.

Louisville will be no wetsuit, IMC will be wetsuit, Wales wetsuit, Kona no wetsuit, Florida wetsuit, Arizona wetsuit and Western Oz wetsuit (from what I am aware of)...then South African and New Zealand will both be wetsuit, which brings things back to Texas.
Quote Reply
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
well said!
Quote Reply
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
76 for over an hour is way too cold for many/most fit/thin people, particularly when you include 10-15 minutes of treading water. bumping the ceiling to 78/79 basically would make imlp a wetsuit race every year, which it should be due to the massive overcrowding. is it going to take either a drowning victim or someone who suffers severe hypothermia and sues WTC before it raises its unreasonable ceiling to a more reasonable temperature?

Are you really fucking serious? 76 is too cold for most people? If wetsuits are allowed in 78 / 79 in triathlons for ranking I won't do any triathlons anymore because I will be handicapped when others are in black (the best racing temperature for me is about 65 - 68 for 1.5 km). Do you want a black Fran Crippen on news?!

In many part of the world the water never goes above 70 even in the middle of the summer, and a lot of people do long distance swimming (in terms of hours) in the 60s.
Quote Reply
Re: Mixed Wetsuit and Wetsuit Mass Start: Please post your experiences [miklcct] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Let me award you the Slowtwitch Golden Shovel award for singlehandedly resurrecting multiple more-than-5-year-old threads in a single day. Keep up the good work!
Quote Reply

Prev Next