Interesting, the number of first time posters in this thread.

I have been swimming in a RiverPool for the last five years. I did get the stronger motor and at 500/999 watts is about a 1:30/100 swim time for me. If you want to go fast, this is the pool.

Also using a current pool is the best way to swim with a power meter! I do TrainerRoad workouts in my pool.

For the last five years no problems with the pool. I highly recommend it. Transition to open water swimming is seamless. If you want the mayhem of a triathlon start add a few floating toys to the pool and at random intervals they will run into/over you you! Also the mirror on the floor really helps improve the swim stroke.

Bob

Francois thank you for your insights. We are considering approximately a 19ft Endless Swim Spa or the Michael Phelps or SwimX. This would be our first swim spa. One thought is to go for a Sundance Optima spa and separately for a 15 ft in place swim pool to get the best of both though the two separate would be more expensive than a single unit swim spa. Any comments would be appreciated 1) a combo unit vs two separate and 2) between Endless, Michael Pgelps and SwimX.
Surinder

The spa salesman that I talked to that had one of the larger dual hot tub swim spa combos told me that it wasn't a good idea. Hot tub that doesn't get hot enough and a swimming pool that does not stay cool enough. The acrylic wall between the two is not enough to insulate between their two temperatures. I honestly think that you would probably lose money because you're going to spend a bunch of time trying to keep the hot tub hot in that it's gonna be heating up another 3000 gallons worth of swim spa just by being close to it

As for swim spa choices as I've noted, my wife tried them all and found the endless pool to have the most even and consistent flow for her

Is this bubble problem when you are doing 10-15 minutes straight at 1:10 100m pace? As in you are freaking really really fast!

Or does this problem happen at all paces? My dad is having an EP built starting in June and while he isn't a 17minute 1500m swimmer I don't think he is going to like this bubble problem if it's that way at all speeds. Hadn't heard of it and we have been researching this for almost a year now

Yes - I just bought one. I decided to create a FB page, just for fun.

https://www.facebook.com/...=aymt_homepage_panel

Resurrecting this older thread to get updates from anyone who has installed a Master’s Spa swim spa, either one of the H2X series or the MP version recently in the past year or so. My house will be under construction beginning next month and I am interested in either the MP Momentum or the H2X Challenger. Both have separate swim areas and spa and can regulate different temps for both. I’m not sure the Challenger can offer enough resistance for short sprints that I would do. The supplier wasn’t sure of the exact speed for the challenger and the manual doesn’t specify. However, I will have a chance to trial it and will increase to max speed. The Momentum provides numbers in the manual.

Any and all feedback is welcome.

I was on the fence between the H2X and the MP wondering if I needed the faster one. They are the EXACT same except they use a stronger set of pumps in the MP to get you to those faster speeds (and I think there is a connected app for programming workouts in the MP as well). But the price jump is HUGE and didn't make any sense for my needs.

The H2X max speed is a 1:20 per 100 pace which is plenty for me (the MP is like :55 per 100 if I remember correctly). If I even sniff sub 1:20 pace, I'm doing sprint work and that's rare. I mostly do drill work and long distance endurance sets. If I ever feel like I need to do hard core sprint work, I can hit up the aquatic center near my home. But to swim long intervals at race pace, 1:20 pace is something I don't get near which is about a 55min IM swim.

FYI...The H2X is the one Ben Hoffman and Tim&Rinny have at their home setups for training. From what I understand after talking to the rep when ordering mine, the MP is more geared for the competitive athlete that does "swim meet" type events and training, not long course events (i.e., 70.3 and full)

The online tri guy (Triathlon Taren) did several videos on the H2X that he bought and also did one at Ben's house like a "cribs" special. Good info in those as well. Those helped me in my my decision making process as well. Good enough for the pros and a very fast AG'er like Taren means the H2X was plenty for me.

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Cheers, Ray

Thanks for the feedback Ray. The dealer did mention there’s about a $7-8k markup from the challenger to the momentum, so that will enter into the process. I’ll know more tomorrow after I trial the challenger. I am a long distance freestyler in swim meets at ~1:23-1:25/100m pace (800 & 1500 LCM) but still would like the ability to get to 1:1x/100m pace at times for sprint work.

Are the vids you mention on ST? I’ll look around for them.

Standby and I'll get you the links. I have them saved.........

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Cheers, Ray

Here you go.....

Triathlon Taren Vids:
Taren's new H2X video
Ben Hoffman training setup video.

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Cheers, Ray

Any updates from anyone who has bought a stand alone Endless Pool or Masterspa swim spa?
Thank you!

Great few videos from Cody Miller on his new backyard setup.

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"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5

Honest question - do you guys/gals get bored swimming in these swim spas? That would be my biggest worry about them.

Ray, I really appreciate you resurrecting the thread! Can you please offer any update commentary on your Challenger 5 more months in??

I'm also struggling to pull the trigger between MP version vs, Challenger 18. (Rep claims 18' offers a better swim than 15' due to less bumping up against jets) The rep confirms your Challenger speed projections and I'm a 1:10 IM swimmer at best, so think the ~$8k savings may be the best ROI. Tri Taren mentions using the tether for faster paces, but I'm surprised he, Hoffman, Rinny and Meredith Kestler don't find that top speed far too limiting. Since the spas are presumably given to them free and they are now sponsors of Ironman, it's hard to tell how big an issue that current pace truly is. I've also been really surprised there are not more third-party objective head to head comparisons online... This is literally the only one that comes even close on the entire Interwebs. I'm looking for someone to say it's not worth the savings for the Challenger, or the new version is way better option for a MOPer than EP..

For anyone else, I fear the blow back on this question, so please go easy... But with a ~1:25/100y Challenger more than half the cost of an Endless Pool Original Series -Performance Edition ~1:05/100y basic $25k vs. $53k), and then EP rep confirming additional $7k for install, delayed till July (9 months from now), another 5-10k for steps, roll cover, counter/app/etc. and future maintenance on motor/pump, how can EP compete in the market for the average adult triathlete??

Thanks for all the smart perspective so far!!

Hey Hank,

What did you end up getting and how are you liking it? I totally agree that there aren't many places online to get feedback on these, and with Eric and Paula now repping one, I am swimspa curious.

Budget is a factor for me--pace not as much. 1:20 on the Challenger model is just fine, but 35k is a big chunk of change for me, and I worry I get bored.

Any input welcome.

Thanks,

Meg

Meggie, I ordered the new upgraded Challenger 18 D Pro (details here) a year ago, but still haven't received it yet. Major Quality control + huge demand + COVID means this is probably going to be a huge seller. I knew it would be a while.


I think I got a great deal on it (don't ask, it was that good) because I ordered it the day the CEO announced it in an internal meeting, and the Central TX sales rep knew I would want the upgrade because I was worried about the speed issue. I believe I was the very first order and put down a small deposit that night at a local pool trade show. I will try to remember to post when it arrives, which should be before the end of 2021, but with all the supply chain issues, who the heck knows...


I may hold off as well as I'm trying to build a boutique studio for my triathlon coaching clients, and materials (and contractors) have proved to be a 'challenge.' I'm not quite so wealthy and way too smart to be buying or building anything with walls in this environment (and not forced to do so), so I may just wait till 2021 to build and receive the pool, instead of being victim to a massive gouging. I feel blessed to have locked in this spa at a price pre-Biden stimmy checks... I'm sure MS will be raising prices to account for currency debasement and having to pay employees to show up for work. I would expect them to be adding 25% to their products before end of 2020 (I'm in finance and study these issues, we're expecting real inflation to become painful for most businesses (= consumers) in Q1 2022.


I wish I could be of more help. I think this new upgrade (a 4th jet and pump will drop speeds to close to 1 min/100 m) could be a real threat to Endless Pools, in the same way the KICKR was to Computrainer. I'm sure that will elicit some laughs and commentary, but I'm old enough to remember both Computrainer AND Blockbuster Video- there was a time people laughed at the possibility that either firm would get outflanked in the marketplace. Ben Hoffman personally pushed for and helped develop this Pro version, and he seemed to love the slower original 18D.

But until this particular model rolls out, we won't know for sure.

https://swim-fitness.com/swimspa/challenger-18-d-pro/

I got a michael phelps Force D swim spa about 4 months ago. It has the XP propellar, but not the XP "signature" propellar (the signature goes to higher speeds). Also, take note that running the swim spa at the higher speeds, it will automatically cut off the circuit breaker after about 30 mins. I placed my in a four seasons room with the idea to swim year round, keep in mind you should keep electric four feet from the spa and that the humidity generated in a building will be significant if you dont have some good ventilation. Also they recommend having 3 feet of clearance around the pool so you can access the side panels for maintence. It took about 6 months from me placing the order to actually get the swim spa and delivery was a complete hassle. Set up was all on my own and the electrical hook up is pricey and maybe difficult as well depending on your set up. Also you have to have a very sturdy concerte pad to place it on. Overall, I am happy with it, It is very convient and I have definately upped my milage. I don't really go to the pool much anymore as I have the swim spa and a 40ft inground and my Ironman swim time seems to be right at about an hour regardless of how much or little I train for it. it takes a little getting used to swimming in the current and you often have to pause a bit or alter your stroke a little to keep in the current right. It tends to develop a little bit of a whirlpool effect and the current will move to once side at times and I have to pause for 15-30 secs to kind of let the current reset. I couldn't the the "SNAPP" app to work at all and from best I can tell it is complete crap. I am worried that it ever breaks its going to be very hard to get serviced and I may wind up doing most of it myself. Swimming in it is different than a pool swim. no having to do flip turns I think is nice. I don't think the top speed is quite what is advertised. Overall, I am happy with it, but I would probably do things differently mainly in how I constructed the four seasons room if I were to do it over.

Thanks for the update, Hank. I'd love to hear your thoughts once you get it and use it regularly. With a 14 month lead time, I have a lot of time to think about it.

-meg

Newbie here but wanted to add my thoughts on the MP swim spa.
Had Delivered an 18 foot phelps spa 6 weeks ago to my home. Glad I had a good retailer involved because delivery was a PITA. Anyway, so far so good. I like the water flow and it’s rather easy to stay in the sweet spot. I have the XP Propulsion model which is more than i would ever use at 65 yo. It has settings from 1 to 100 and I set mine at 48 for an easy swim. Usually 20 min then water therapy for 10. Seems like a reliable system and Master Spas makes quality yet affordable products. The lap pool I was considering would have only been 20 yards and flipping turns every 25 seconds would have been a rough experience. With this spa it’s non stop work if you want it or you can take short breaks periodically.

Hi all! Going to rehash this thread again .

I'm looking to purchase a MP swim spa ( probably the Force model by the H2x series intrigues me as well) in the next month. I am also considering the Endless pool E-series but boy they sure do charge a lot for every damn accessory.


Can those who currently have a MP swim spa comment on how the swim and jacuzzi experience has been like? Only considering a swim spa so that wife and kids can use it so am curious to know if its worth it or not. any comments would be appreciated! TIA

most "real" swimmers are flip turning every ~18 seconds all the time