did someone ask how much you way?

Do you rest on Day 4 and then start again or just keep repeating; 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, etc...

day three is a rest day.

Hate to go thread digging here, but wanted to report in with my n=1 experience. I have have been using a similar protocol as mentioned above, setting tire pressure consistently and consistently setting the pressure of the trainer resistance on the wheel the same every ride. Despite (or perhaps to the benefit of) the before mentioned discrepancies in the cyclops trainer at various temperatures, I have been using it effectively to raise "FTP" during my season's build period.

I am using speed, rather than gearing or cadence, to measure "FTP". I do a 20' all out TT on the trainer, and multiply my avg speed for that period by .95 to get my generalized 60' "speed FTP". I have then been using this speed, and various %'s over and under this "FTP" # (again, using the same PSI and tension setting against my rear wheel) to duplicate power based workouts. I generally do 2x20's and low cadence 5x8's a few times a week. No doubt the resistance is there. Last 5' of first 20' set is tough. 3 minute rest in between. Half way through the second 20' set, I get paranoid that the clock is somehow running backwards and can't stop staring at the time, wishing it to go faster. Pretty happy to get off when it's over.

Results: in the past 3 months I have gained nearly 10% improvement on avg speed for this 20' interval. With the warmer weather NE is experiencing, I got out today for a 2.5 hour ride, and can tell you, based on avg speeds/HR zones achieved (as well as PE, especially when leaning into efforts on climbs or prolonged flats) from training logs from this past fall, I am undoubtedly coming into this season stronger, faster, and measurably fitter on the bike. A preseason well spent. Another gratifying thing to note, a saddle is far more comfortable for 2.5+ hours on the road than 1 hour on the trainer. I fell in love with my Adamo TT all over again today. A negative side is that despite the very large increase in saddle time prior to hitting real pavement this season, bike handling skills really went to crap this winter and I will need to spend some time getting comfortable again on descents, road imperfections, and in traffic situations. On the trainer I try to ignore the pain by attempting to zone out as much as possible with past ironman footage or cycling footage on the DVR, on the road today I really had to re-dial in the focus on road imperfections/debris/traffic. I was caught surprised a few times with frost heaves/pot holes/broken glass and random metal/passing 18 wheeler drafts, and was very cautious on some fast descents, getting off the aerobars and onto the bull horns.

While I have no doubt a powertap will make this more of a pure science and I am still simply lurking in the shadows of truly understanding precise training, my "poor man's powertap" is going to be paying dividends this season, without a doubt. I still have every intent of one day getting a PT, as I can imagine the pacing guidance and true balls on accuracy of training zones will prove valuable, but in the mean time, I am making the most of my time on the trainer for no more than the cost of a cateye strada.

---

"It never gets easier, you just go faster."
-Greg LeMond

BUMP!
HoLeeeCrap! Dude, you started one of the best threads I've ever read on ST. Not only a fantastic discussion of what to do to improve FTP,but a Coggan, Day, Simmons science based smackdown as added entertainment. I'm so glad I found this thread. Such a nice refreshing change from all of the Lance crap out there.

So where are you now in terms of power? Just curious if you kept the disciplines (and gains) up?

Cheers!

---

- Pete

---

Luckily my over eating disorder is offset by my over exercising disorder

Short answer - I peaked this year at 303 watts for a 40k (from my initial 236 watts). Dropped over 5 minutes off my 2010 best time 40k time.

Longer answer - I do not use this exact training method (anymore). While it brought great results initially, I quickly became awesome at 2x20's (and nothing else!). I think my peak 2x20 effort in 2011 was ~325 watt average...whereas my actual FTP was around 275. I retooled my training in 2012 and got even better results. Do get me wrong - I still do 2x20's and 1x20's - but they are surrounded by other longer sweet spot intervals that I found helped me with anything over 25 minutes.

Bottom line - 2x20's and 1x20's are awesome - everyone can benefit from them. This original thread was the start of something big for me.

Damn!! Good thread. Enjoyed the discussion and learned a bit. Also good feedback on your revelation...I was about to start focusing on 2X20s! ahahha. Well, nice to see that in the end it was just a part of the picture and need to do longer distance work. But an awesome experiment to see unfold. Makes me want to start my own experiment tomorrow!!! Thanks, because I had lost a bit of motivation recently.

Thats impressive. Well done. And "getting good at 2x20's" sounds a lot like getting good at sticking a needle in your eye. Hopefully someday I get used to that level of discomfort.

A couple of questions for you:
1) did you ever get an answer on standing during a portion of the efforts? is it ok, or is it better to drop the wattage to maintain seated position?
2) do you know what the gains were initially, say at 8 or 12 week intervals, vs the gains in later time periods (similar to what Alex Simmons posted). Understanding everyone's physiology is different and its only an n of 1, it would be a good benchmark to someone's realized gains were and what the percentage drop off was (in gains) as time progressed and you became more "trained"
3) I had another question but cant remember for the life of me what they were.

Again, great thread. Great initial question, great discussion and most of all, kudos to you for keeping us updated and giving a real world example of what an applied plan can do.

Thanks!

---

- Pete

---

Luckily my over eating disorder is offset by my over exercising disorder

I haven't read through the whole thing, but a lot of this seems like "getting used to your TT position"... since in the beginning you had a huge gap between TT power and road power.

Where did your road power end up?

Nice thread! Very inspiring!

Thanks for your advice from the initial post!

So any thoughs to another write-up from the newer training that incorporates the longer sweet spot ideas?

I got tired of reading the pages of sidetrack so I may have missed a definite and conclusive response to my question. If so, I apologize for asking again. How many times does one need to go through the 3-day cycle to make gains?
Another question: What s the max # of cycles recommended?

Given the amount of information, the only correct answer to the first question is "somewhere between zero and infinity". For me, the correct answer would be either... or anything in between. With "gain" being some tiny amount.

The second question I don't understand.

I think the answer that you are looking for is that if your goal is to improve FTP in this manner, you should go through this cycle until you stop making the gains you are looking for. Then, you change up your training to race prep, base building, a slightly different FTP regimen, whatever will help you achieve your goal.

---

-Bryan Journey
Travel Blog | Training Blog | Facebook Page

Just under 10% higher (329 - confirmed). I'm fine with the power drop. I probably could get those numbers closer if I rode my TT bike more (I probably am skew'd 80/20 road bike with 100% of the TT riding coming in 5 months) I've done numerous fits and power tests to find what I think is my optimal TT position.

The basic idea was to ride longer sets a little under threshold combined with slightly harder sets above threshold. It was really trial and error. Just don't get too attached to one method...

That's what my question was geared towards. Thanks for the insight.

A good read is "The Hour" by Michael Hutchinson. His killer interval set (done during the last 6 weeks or so before his Hour attempt) was 20 seconds (about the pace he could sustain for a minute)/10 seconds at about the pace he used for a 90 minute race. He did this for 20 minutes, had a 10 minute break and repeated.

"The session was suggested to me by a coach, whose standard instruction was to take as much time between the efforts as you felt you needed. He subsequently told me about a conversation he'd had with a member of the national squad.
Coach: How did the 20/10 session go?
Rider: It was fine.
Coach: How long did you leave between the efforts?
Rider: Three months."
Michael Hutchinson - The Hour

Just in case someone reads this and attempts it, it's worth noting that unless one had abnormally low 1MP, that workout wouldn't be sustainable for more than 2-3 minutes--by anyone. If most people tried that, their average power would be about 25% higher than their 20 minute max power.

Workouts that are designed for that level of failure don't make much sense to me.

He said that he also did 1 minute on/ one minute off sessions and repeated 15 times. His 20/10 pace was the pacing he did for his 1 minute on session so not an absolute 1MP effort.

Has anyone actually done this plan? Care to share feedback?

Quote the post you are referring to.

This one here.