"Why is there an effort by the US Postal Service to collect phone cards to distribute to soldiers overseas? Why doesn't the military provide this service? "

I'm not sure what "service" you mean. Phone calls cost money and soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines like to call home long distance from foreign countries. Sending calling cards is a nice way to give something to the servicemembers that they can really use, instead of sending them a box of candy or cookies. Military comms bandwidth is used for official stuff (intell, message traffic, etc), so it's nice for troops to be able to jump on the local pay phone with a calling card. Usually the phone companies (AT&T or Sprint) set up a bank of phone booths wherever troops are deployed to so they don't have to mess with language barriers or currency issues.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Well, all of what slowguy said and:

Our military is stretched pretty darn thin right now. Paramount on their acquisition agenda are mission specific items like body armor, up-armoring vehicles used in combat areas, adequate MRE's for guys in the field and even water.

When I was in the military almost every peice of equipment I carried I had to purchase on my own- including both my rifle and my sidearm. My rifle cost thousands of dollars to purchase and modify and so did my handgun. I also bought my own load bearing equipment, the stuff you carry all your gear on, and uniforms when we wore them. A knife company, Gerber, gave our unit a box of knives so they could advertise that we used them.

Be a soldier is a difficult and austere profession. One night we went through some convoluted calcualtion and figured out we were making about two bucks an hour. I was single as were most of the men in my unit. There were no women in my unit. I can't imagine being married and trying to raise a family like many of the young Marines in Iraq.

It's ironic that there is a political perspective that supports social programs for low income americans, minorities and others who may be perceived as economically disadvantaged- but many of the persons who subscribe to that mindset will not endorse changes that directly improve a vast number of low income americans, some of whom are minorities, who work at a long, hard, often menial and dangerous job for the common good: The US Military.

Not a day goes by when I don't think about the enormous debt we owe these fine young people.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

You must have been in a low-rent, ghetto unit if you had to buy your own gear. I find it hard to believe any reputable unit even allowed you to carry a personally owned rifle or handgun since every round expended has to be accounted for, and every weapon used has to be secured and serialized to prevent mishap, theft, or illegal sale/use of military weapons. I know lots of guys do decide to buy their own web-gear/thermals/cammies/boots if they don't like the issue stuff, but they aren't required to do that, they choose to, and that mostly happens with SOF guys. And even those guys, who are more particular about what they wear and use can usually get almost anything they want from SOCOM. Hell, my first day working for NAVSPECWARCOM was spent ferrying Jeep loads of issued gear from Supply to my apt. Regular units usually make their guys stick pretty closely to standard uniform items.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Well, first off, remember, my primary unit- Company "F" 425th Infantry, Longe Range Surveillance Unit (RANGER/AIRBORNE), Michigan National Guard was first headquartered here in Michigan. Our budget was primarily the responsibility of the state unless we were "federalized" when attached to our parent organization, 18th Airborne Corps.

The state had so little money we sometimes had difficulty maintaining jump status because they didn't have money for fuel for aircraft. As a result, we jumped out of damn near anything- Hueys, Blackhawks, Caribous- anything.

We lived for AT, where we would often do exchange programs with the SAS on the Beacons Breacons or the International LRRP School in Norway. Our unit had precious few slots for HALO, SCUBA and other "high speed" schools- and competition for those Hollywood schools was high.

Also, because most of our unit was employed full tme in the intelligence/security/law enforcement community they were used to their own stuff. I do remember times when there was controversy about our equipment and uniform policies. I caught hell several times at Ft. Benning for not wearing a uniform, wearing sunglasses, wearing an OD uniform when everyone else wore those awful, heavy, woodland BDU's. I never wore those after Airborne school.

Since you were with NAVSPECWAR you guys got some nice stuff from what I read about. Us guys- we usually had to foot the bill ourselves unless we wanted a nasty old M-16 that had been hanging out in the armory forever and a bunch of web gear designed in WWII.

BTW: Company "F" is currently deployed full time operationally somewhere in the world. They moved to Selfridge ANGB after i left the military. They remain one of only a hand full of dedicated long range intelligence gathering units in the US aresenal, another being company "G" in Texas.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom I would have to respecfully question any soldier "having" to purchase their own weapon. Additional comfort and good to have things like a Gerber or leatherman, or off the shelf LBE etc., but I have never heard of purchasing your own weapon.

Disregard my post. You answered the question.

-Speaking of that, here is a cool photo shot by my patrol leader, SSgt. Surmacz (last I heard, First Sergeant for the Company) up at Camp Grayling on a weekend drill. This, my friend, is my issue weapon and BDU's- but not sling, hat, sweater or boots. This is about as close as we ever got to "uniform".

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Well, if you were National Guard, I can understand it a bit more. It's too bad you guys were so strapped for budget. Usually anyone falling under SOCOM is going to do okay for money, but that's nowadays, I'm not sure how it used to be. We had so many options for boots, socks, thermals, etc that I never needed to worry about it, but when my guys needed specialty knives, lights, TacVests, etc, I bought them off the shelf and made SOCOM pay for it rather than making my guys foot the bill. I actually had a Seaman Apprentice who didn't have enough money to buy nice clothes for the Squadron Christmas party one year. All he had was shorts and flip-flops. So the Division took up a collection and one of the BM2s took the kid to the mall and bought him some shoes, khakis, and a polo or two, and the kid actually wore the shoes to the party and then took them back the day after so he could buy a nice present for his kid for Christmas Day. No way I was going to make a kid like that pay for the gear he needed to do his job.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

When I was in Bosnia and the Gulf the british Army allowed you 15 mins per week on a telephone free of charge. You didn't always make it but I remember that it made a massive difference in morale.

I was talking to my family once and the Serbians opened up on our camp with AA fire (don't ask me why). It was so f***** loud but I diddn't want to miss my call. I laid on the ground taking cover and talking telling my family that the guys were messing about and slamming doors. Ah the good old days bad food, bad water good company.

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In the Air Force the guys at the Maintance Operation Center where the ones to buy lots of beer. They could patch you a call in anywhere.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Getting back to the calling card stuff.

The military does not take care of the soldiers as weel as it should. So what the US Postal is trying to do is simply to help them to call home. The military wouldn't be able to "afford" such a program. In reality they could afford it many times over but money is preferably spent on weapons and bureacratic (sp?) processes rather than on the soldiers. Anybody that has been on the military knows how much money the government really wastes.

Anyway, if you asked Rumsfeld to provide the military with calling cards he would probably say that soldiers don't need no stinking calling cards and he would extend your tour for another 6 months for asking.

Gee, sounds like you've got a beef with the Army.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I like the model in which these things are provided by public gifts instead of government budgets. It provides a vehicle to give the public the ability to stand behind our troops, and for the troops to know the grass roots support them.

Now that I think of it, I need to make a contribution to Injured Marine Semper Fi Fund. It is Christmas, and it is the least I can do.

Getting back to the calling card stuff.

The military does not take care of the soldiers as weel as it should. So what the US Postal is trying to do is simply to help them to call home. The military wouldn't be able to "afford" such a program. In reality they could afford it many times over but money is preferably spent on weapons and bureacratic (sp?) processes rather than on the soldiers. Anybody that has been on the military knows how much money the government really wastes.

Anyway, if you asked Rumsfeld to provide the military with calling cards he would probably say that soldiers don't need no stinking calling cards and he would extend your tour for another 6 months for asking.



Gee....how do you answer the above observation? And when did calling cards start getting issued with the rest of the tactical gear? The answer is they're not.

Calling cards have nothing whatsoever to do with the above. The troops get a small amount of time allotted to use sat phones, which are supplied down to the battalion, or even company, level over there. The cards are for extra phone calls over and above what they already get. Even the troops are getting spoiled by the easy availability of cellphones and airtime.

What do you guys think we did 20, or even 10, years ago? Sat phones were only for emergency use. There was no email, and a phone call was doled out and religiously monitored for time. Whatever happened to writing a letter?

Trust me, I have nothing but sympathy for the situation on the ground over there ("been there, done that", literally), but this kind of yammering about how our finely-tuned killing machine should now have an unlimited amount of phone calls in which to call home to mommy doesn't do as much good as you think it might (said in a gruff, Patton-like tone).

Tony

C'mon Kahuna, didn't anyone teach you what an officer's responsibilities to his guys are?

1. Don't let them get killed.
2. Don't let them starve.
3. Don't make them do too much "manual" labor.
4. Don't make them work long hours if they don't want to.
5. Don't require them to continue doing their jobs if we actually go to war.
6. Don't expect them to be prepared to do violence if called upon.
7. Don't hold them acountable if they desert.

and 8. Don't let them miss their wekly phone chats with their girlfriends.

;-)

Most of my guys would rather have had a couple extra bucks in their paychecks than a free phone card, but you don't see people crying about that when they complain that the military doesn't take care of it's people.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I hear you. Amazing what stateside civvies get into their brains about what the troops need or don't need, nowadays.

As you say, most of my guys would've liked a few extra bucks in the paycheck rather than a phone card.

T.

So what did you think of Rummy telling the crybabies at the press confrence you go with the army you not what you wish you had.

I say good for him and I'm a little stunned that those troops asked such questions at press conference.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

The enlisted ranks, in the lower paygrades, ALWAYS bitch about something. It's the nature of the beast, so to speak. And Rumsfeld was right about going to war with the forces you have, not the ones you wish you had.

Force structure and shape are always being reviewed. Some flag and general officers, and their civilian masters in the individual services, want to "build the perfect beast". But sometimes you just can't wait around to go out and kill, kill, kill for that perfect machine to be completed. If we did that, we'd never go to war.

Just more sniping by people in government who should know better, but who want to score political points with the people who really don't.

T.

"So what did you think of Rummy telling the crybabies at the press confrence you go with the army you not what you wish you had.

I say good for him and I'm a little stunned that those troops asked such questions at press conference.
"

Holy Cow. We've hit a new low in Tibbs legibility. What language was that?

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

There is a legitimate complaint when troops are being sent into combat with substandard gear or un-armored Humvees. We managed to produce over a million airplanes during WWII, so "production" should not be a valid excuse for not being able to uparmor some Humvees for our National Guardsmen who are going in harms way.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Yeah I know we'd bitch but damn if we asked the SECDEF a question it would have been along the lines of "Are we going to get anymore armored Humvees?" not that little bitchy snot way those guys asked.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Nice shot. You almost look scary.

I hope you had some gloves to cover those light reflecting hands of yours.

RB