"Sounds like you fit very nicely into Pascal's third category of people."

No sense looking for that which isn't there. Can't find something that doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist can't find me.

Don

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Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!

What's the proof that some people will accept, and who are they?

A sparkling example of self-fulfilling prophecy.

The universe and life cannot start itself, no sense in even looking for evidence to support it. Can't find evidence that does not exist. Evidence that does not exist cannot be found. Another self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't see the logic in that.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

The bottom line on this is that you can neither prove or disprove God's or a god's existence. If you believe, you will see evidence of a power greater than yourself whever you look. If you do not believe, you will see rational explanation or simple chance in the world around you. some will see variations or combinations of both. The nature of a creator outside of time and outside of what we understand as physics and science can not, by definition, be proven by any scientific reasoning.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

No sense looking for that which isn't there. Can't find something that doesn't exist.

And how is it that you know there's nothing there?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I agree. I think "God limits the scientific method, not the other way around". That is not even close to saying "science isn't important" or "science should be ignored". Science is one of the most important things in my life ... but I don't think folks should let science's grasp extend past its reach"

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

"The universe and life cannot start itself, no sense in even looking for evidence to support it. Can't find evidence that does not exist. Evidence that does not exist cannot be found. Another self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't see the logic in that."

My point was that what is not there can't be found. For example: Before I met my wife and we had a son, would I have been able to find my son? No, he didn't exist. No amount of looking for him would have found him. Would my son have been able to find me? No, he didn't exist. Now, I could have imagined what my son would have been like before he actually existed, but I would never have been able to know him. My imagination of a non-existent son could have created the most perfect being ever, but the reality of my son shows him to be just as human as anyone else.

But then the argument will be that I would be able to find a god because it already existed. To that I say, your god exists in the same manner of me imagining my non-existent son. It's not really there, no matter how much you imagine otherwise. For reasons we may never know, humans have created elaborate stories to explain the existence of their particular god(s). I do find it somewhat interesting that as the ability of humans to communicate and travel across vast distances has improved, the creation of new stories about god(s) has diminished. The higher the number of people actually able to bear witness to some godlike event, the fewer godlike events occur.

As to the possibility that something not of this universe created everything - we'll likely never know. The possibility does exist, but so too does the possibility that whatever this something was, it was destroyed in the big bang that set the universe in motion.

Don

"To me, every single birth is a god-like event and there are millions everyday. Add to that fact, that we are on a planet revolving at an incredible speed, in the middle of a complex universe at exactly the perfect distance from the sun, and I'd say, every single day I wake up, is a godlike event."

So just the fact that we exist at all is godlike? Your god has created a world in which to place us in order to judge us to see if we are worthy of joining it in an afterlife? Seems a bit sadistic to me. You really think we have been put here to serve a master where we can only guess at what the plan is? That all we need to do is accept that there is such a master and try our best to live our lives in accordance with what some ancient person said even though none of us is truely capable of living in such a manner? So you live your life accordingly with only the hope of being judged favorably, but never really knowing for sure? Then your god was especially diabolical by allowing hundreds of differing religions, not to mention the thousands of different sects within the Christian religion. This way there is likely no possibility of ever knowing if you're even living your life in the manner that your god has prescribed.

Kinda makes me sad that this one particular person was murdered for his particular beliefs. Although untold millions of other people have also been murdered for their own beliefs over the ages, only this one supposedly possessed the answers we all wish we knew. Of course, the reality is more likely that if this one particular person had not been murdered and had instead lived, he would have died of old age or disease like all humans. But then the story wouldn't be so compelling.

Don