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tri/road fit
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I have read with interest Dan Empfields articles about tri specific bike fit. I am not sure if I have understood some of the more technical aspects but I have the following conclusions and questions to pose: My Conclusions - - the angle between torso/legs i.e. hip angle is very similar in the forward position to a roadie on the hoods - the entire cylist in the forward position is rotated forward dropping the head and shoulders and pushing the feet back - this affects the handling of the bike (too much weight forward) so a steeper seat tube angle and 650c wheels are employed to move the centre of gravity to a similar position in relation to the wheels - there seems to be a break-even point at a rider height of around six feet/1.83 metres tall where 700c wheels become acceptable So my question is this: If I take a road bike like a giant TCR which has very short chainstays, fit it with slightly longer forks with a more tri-appropriate offset (I am not sure what that would be)so that the head tube angle is effectively a little more relaxed and the front-centre distance is increased, and use an appropriate seatpost to get say a 76 or 78 degree angle how will this work out ? It seems that the centre of gravity issue will be resolved and the position will be something approaching a forward position. The headset will be a little high and the bottom bracket wil be a little high - allthough maybe the bar height could be addressed with bullhorn bars. As a compromise, I am interested to see how this would be. What sort of fork offset woul be appropriate -more or less than standard? - I am generally of the opinion that a slightly slower handling more straight line oriented machine is better for aerobars - not the criterium specific units that everyone seems to ride these days.
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Re: tri/road fit [bumface] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure about all the fork stuff - way beyond my skill set. I can tell you that the biggest problem I had getting my road bike in an Empfieldesque position was the height of the headset.

I am 6 feet tall and ride a 59 Bianchi racing bike (more like a 57 from anyone else). With a thompson setback seat post flipped forward, I was able to get close to a 78 degree seat angle. The problem came with the stack. Using Empfield's equation for this, my pads should be 10.47 +- 1.5 cm below the seat. Because my headtube is so long, this distance was simply impossible to get to. I did make it to around 8.5 cm, and it is much more comfortable in the aero position, but is just not quite there according to Dan.

The more I mess with this stuff, the more is seems to me that the practical way to go is just bite the bullet and get a tri-specific frame and have it fitted up right.
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Re: tri/road fit [JohnA] [ In reply to ]
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i wouldn't get too hinky about my armrest drop formula. esp if you're at a seat angle less than 80 degrees. a bit shallower is okay.

and you're right, the head tube is the tougher go, unless you buy a low-profile aero bar like hed or visiontech.

adding rake is okay, but less so for a steeper head angle. perhaps 50mm of rake is okay, but the steering might be dicey on a head angle steeper than, oh, 72.5 degrees of seat angle. 72 would be about good for a rake that large.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: tri/road fit [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I used the modified formula for 78 degrees to get the 10.47, and even though I am not all the way there, it still feels more "right" than how I had it before. I even found myself climbing in the aero position a few times, and out of the saddle from time to time while still in the aero bars. Remarkably comfortable, but takes a little getting used to.

The problem that is bugging me right now is something you mentioned somewhere, but I can't remember how or if you resolved it. With the shorter virtual top tube from the forward facing seat post, and the lower stack, I found myself bashing my knees on my armrest pads when I climb out of the saddle with my hands on the hoods - or my elbows when I climb out of the saddle in my aero position. Did I make the top tube too short or is this just a symptom of the Syntace aero bars?
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Re: tri/road fit [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So is my understanding correct that I can achieve everything with the TCR frame and 700c wheels except the low front end including correcting the handling deficiencies of a road frame/aero position combination by substituting a longer fork with more rake?

Do any tri-bike manufacturers publish trail numbers? What would be a reasonable number to aim for?
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