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Bi-partisan question about election
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According to the 2000 census there are over 200 million americans over the age of 20*( i know the voting age is 18 but I could not find specific data for those of voting age) yet only 115,500,000 voted in the recent election. That is a participation rate of just under 58.

Why are we so proud that 42% of those eligible to vote could not show up to take part in the democracy that so many have given their lives to defend?

There are two sides to this argument. The idealist in me wants everyone to vote so that we truly are a representative republic. Every voice should be heard and every vote counted.

The other side is I don't want my informed (in my opinion) vote to be offset by someone who knows nothing of the candidates and the issues. But that happens regularly by those that vote a straight party ticket or those that are one issue voters(abortion, gun rights, gay issues).

Is it the governments role to encourage people to vote? I would think most incumbents would want fewer voters as I believe the electorate that turns out regularly is less likely to be "throw the bums out" mentally.

Other countries have laws that require people to vote.

Here it is difficult to vote for some. Should we have a national holiday or do we spread voting over a week or a weekend? Why do we restrict voting to just one tuesday in November?

Thoughts, suggestions are encouraged. Please attempt to keep bi-partisan.
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [Barrio] [ In reply to ]
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Barrio,

I have wondered the same thing myself. I found an interesting article at boortz.com (a favorite website of mine) where he talks about this very topic. I pasted part of it here.

Bob

That, of course, brought us to the idea that Americans have a right to vote ... and that includes a right to vote in a presidential election. Sorry, folks .. but it just isn't so. I hate going over this again, but you can read the Constitution all you want, and you're never going to find any clause which grants a universal right to vote to American citizens. You will find a 15th Amendment where it is written that a person can't be prevented from voting because of their race, ethnicity, gender ... etc. All the 15th Amendment does is restrict the states and the federal government from turning voters away from the polls because of race, gender or religion. Nothing in the 15th Amendment says that either the states or the federal government must allow all people to vote. There are rights granted to all Americans. You can worship and express yourself as you please. Sorry .. no right to vote.

Now, as for presidential elections. Read the constitution. There is no constitutional guarantee that there will be any vote at all, let alone that everyone has the "right" to vote. The only people who have a right to vote for president under our Constitution are the electors from each state. There is no restriction placed on the states as to how these electors must be chosen. State legislatures may appoint the electors with absolutely no public vote if they so chose. Right to vote? It simply isn't there.

Now .. having covered the "right to vote" nonsense ... let's get to the point. The principal problem with the 2000 election in Florida was voter incompetence. There were thousands of voters in Florida who were so dense, so stunningly stupid that they couldn't even follow the simple instructions for filling out a punch-card ballot. Many were so void of reasoning ability that they couldn't figure out the mindlessly simple butterfly ballot. These people couldn't cope with the simple task of voting, and yet we celebrate the fact that they could have made the difference in who was in the White House on September 11th?
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [Barrio] [ In reply to ]
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1) Some people don't really care that much because the government bureaucracy moves so slowly that it really doesn't matter that much who is in office.

2) Young people just don't vote.

3) Forcing people to vote is bad public policy. As you pointed out, some people just don't do their homework on the issues. An unintelligent vote is far worse than not voting at all, despite what Sean Penn says.

4) If you had a national voting holiday, I bet the turnout would decrease. I know I would be on the golf course... Seriously, though, with absentee voting and early voting in many (most) areas, inconvenience is really not a valid argument for not voting.
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Article 1 of the Constitution syas that Representatives shall be chose by "the People of the several States." It doesn't specifically say each person votes, but I think it is interpreted to mean that. The 17th Amendment syas that Senators are elected by the people of their states.
Again, no direct mention that everyone has a right to vote, but it seems to be inherent in that amendment. As for resident, it doesn't say anything about the people chosing, but it does say that each state has to chose it's electors on the same day as every other state in the nation, I think implying that the electors will be chosen by the people of each state. You could derive the right to vote from that. Interesting issue.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [Barrio] [ In reply to ]
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"Here it is difficult to vote for some. Should we have a national holiday or do we spread voting over a week or a weekend? Why do we restrict voting to just one tuesday in November?"

I don't know about other states, but here in Colorado we having early voting that begins about 2 weeks beforehand. This allows people who would not ordinarally be able to vote on election day the opportunity to vote. It also gives people a chance to avoid long lines. Then there are absentee ballots for people who are away. In this state there really is no excuse for not voting. People who don't vote are either lazy or ignorant - maybe both.

However, it could be possible that the reason so many people don't vote is because they have nobody to vote for. The major parties keep providing a choice between bad or worse and many smaller parties or independents are too far out on the fringe. I'm sure there are some well qualified people who are neither Democrat or Republican who won't run because they know they can't be elected unless they are from one of the major parties or have vast wealth. The current election process is unfair. We should not be limited to voting on the slimeballs the major parties give us. All candidates should be given equal time in the debates, in TV advertising, and in daily media coverage. Until this happens we may not see the best possible person heading our country or serving in Congress.

Don
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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I agree about the "implied" intent of the Constitution. It really leaves so much open to interpretation. In the Army we are often given commanders "implied" taks in an Operations Order. I also agree this is an interesting topic. Any other thoughts?
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [Barrio] [ In reply to ]
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I think the electoral college is a problem when it comes presidential voting. In states that are a lock for one candidate or the other, there's very little impetus to go out and vote.

_______________________________________________
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [Barrio] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
According to the 2000 census there are over 200 million americans over the age of 20*( i know the voting age is 18 but I could not find specific data for those of voting age) yet only 115,500,000 voted in the recent election. That is a participation rate of just under 58.
Are you sure that this is 200 million American citizens over the age of 18 and not in jail or disqualified from voting because they are convicted felons? The census counts everyone, citizens and non-citizens, those here legally and those not. The census could also tabulate American citizens separately; I just don't know. But, everyone generally counted in the census is not eligible to vote.

Why are we so proud that 42% of those eligible to vote could not show up to take part in the democracy that so many have given their lives to defend?
I don't care whether you show up to vote or not. It's easy to register and easy to vote. The hardest thing you might have to do is stand in line for one hour. If you aren't interested enough to do that, then I don't care.
There are two sides to this argument. The idealist in me wants everyone to vote so that we truly are a representative republic. Every voice should be heard and every vote counted.
Everyone that wants their voice to be heard can have it heard.

The other side is I don't want my informed (in my opinion) vote to be offset by someone who knows nothing of the candidates and the issues. But that happens regularly by those that vote a straight party ticket or those that are one issue voters(abortion, gun rights, gay issues).
Why do you think that voting straight party is uninformed? I vote straight party because at a national level because I believe that one national party best represents my general viewpoints. I voted for President primarily because of one issue, national security. That is his job after all.

Is it the governments role to encourage people to vote? I would think most incumbents would want fewer voters as I believe the electorate that turns out regularly is less likely to be "throw the bums out" mentally.

Other countries have laws that require people to vote.
Weren't those all Communist dictatorships?

Here it is difficult to vote for some. Should we have a national holiday or do we spread voting over a week or a weekend? Why do we restrict voting to just one tuesday in November?

I do volunteer work for campaigns and elections. On election day, my day started at 6:15 AM and ended at 10:30 PM. As a result, it was the first Tuesday in at least six months that I did not go running. I also spent much of the day before getting ready for what I would do on election day. It's very hard to get enough volunteers to to do what needs to be done when the polls are open for one day. It would not be possible to get enough volunteers to cover a week of voting. I could not take a week off to help out. Few others could. Anyway, if you have a real problem with voting on the first Tuesday after November 1, then you can always get an absentee ballot. If you can't manage that one, then you aren't bright enough to be allowed to vote.
Thoughts, suggestions are encouraged. Please attempt to keep bi-partisan.
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I think you've got a decent comparison here. The point of Op Orders and, I think, of the Constitution, is to comply with the intent of the piece of paper. Unfortunately, it's sometimes difficult to ascertain the intent of the Founders. Fortunately, we have a whole branch of govt that's supposed to do that for us in the Judiciary. With Op Orders or mission plans, etc, there is frequently a statement of Commander's Intent to help direct subordinate units. The problem with Consitutional issues is that we are so far removed, and a lot of differing interpretations of the Founders intent have muddied the waters. Additionally, there is plenty of reason to argue that the Founder's intent only takes you so far, since the nature of the country is to change direction as it evolves.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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It would be constitutional for each state's legislature to choose the electors from that state, and if I remember correctly this is how it was done at first. There is no national vote for President, just local ones to decide a states electors.

I think the answer is to do away with pre-printed ballots. Every vote must be a write-in. If you don't know who you support and how to spell his or her name, you obviously don't know enough to cast an intelligent vote for that particular race.
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [BillT] [ In reply to ]
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Technically, this is how it's still done. Although we count up the national popular vote, it doesn't mean anything because it's the electors that count. There doesn't seem to be anything in the Constitution that would prohibit the States from choosing their electors however they wanted to, just so long as they do it on the day the Congress chooses (Nov 2nd). That's also why I don't understand the argument against allowing states to split their electors up by percentage of vote.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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The arguments against a state's apportioning its electoral votes according to percentages of popular vote are that doing so would be worse than the current system (either for the state or the country as a whole) not that doing so would be Unconstitutional. There is plenty of state and federal activity that is both constitutional and foolish.
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [CTL] [ In reply to ]
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I get the argument about it not working to well, but there are people who have said it would be unconstitutional, and that's the argument I don't necessarily agree with.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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there are people who have said it would be unconstitutional, and that's the argument I don't necessarily agree with.

I don't know who they are, but they're wrong, obviously. An argument can be made that apportioning votes that way actually undermines the intent of the electoral college, but it wouldn't be unconsitutional. (Violates the spirit of the law, but not the letter, perhaps.)








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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An argument can be made that apportioning votes that way actually undermines the intent of the electoral college, but it wouldn't be unconsitutional. (Violates the spirit of the law, but not the letter, perhaps.)
I wouldn't even go that far. I think that would still be within the intent. A couple of states already apportion electoral votes. (Maine comes to mind) The intent was to let each state decide how it wanted to choose its electors. Most states have migrated to a winner-take-all format, decided by a popular vote of the whole state. That format seems to give them the most leverage with candidates. If they want to give up that leverage, though, I agree with you that the Constitution leaves it up to them.
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Re: Bi-partisan question about election [BillT] [ In reply to ]
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"A couple of states already apportion electoral votes. (Maine comes to mind) The intent was to let each state decide how it wanted to choose its electors."

In Colorado this year we had a ballot question that would have changed us from winner take all to apportionment. It was defeated soundly. Wasn't the original intent of the electoral system to prevent small, but highly populated areas from exercising control over the rest of the country?

Don
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