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More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn
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I guess that "thousands of years of civilization" mindset has finally sent them into the fever swamp. Instead of "Bush is a moron", we're going to get at least 4 years of "Americans are morons". Sighhhhh.....

Believe it or not, it wasn't just rednecks who voted for Bush. By Mark Steyn (Filed: 07/11/2004 in the London Daily Telegraph)

The big question after Tuesday was: will it just be more of the same in George W Bush's second term, or will there be a change of tone? And apparently it's the latter. The great European thinkers have decided that instead of doing another four years of lame Bush-is-a-moron cracks they're going to do four years of lame Americans-are-morons cracks. Inaugurating the new second-term outreach was Brian Reade in the Daily Mirror, who attributed the President's victory to: "The self-righteous, gun-totin', military-lovin', sister-marryin', abortion-hatin', gay-loathin', foreigner-despisin', non-passport-ownin' rednecks, who believe God gave America the biggest dick in the world so it could urinate on the rest of us and make their land 'free and strong'." Well, that's certainly why I supported Bush, but I'm not sure it entirely accounts for the other 59,459,765.

Forty five per cent of Hispanics voted for the President, as did 25 per cent of Jews, and 23 per cent of gays. And this coalition of common-or-garden rednecks, Hispanic rednecks, sinister Zionist rednecks, and lesbian rednecks who enjoy hitting on their gay-loathin' sisters expanded its share of the vote across the entire country - not just in the Bush states but in the Kerry states, too.

In all but six states, the Republican vote went up: the urinating rednecks have increased their number not just in Texas and Mississippi but in Massachusetts and California, both of which have Republican governors. You can drive from coast to coast across the middle of the country and never pass through a single county that voted for John Kerry: it's one continuous cascade of self-righteous urine from sea to shining sea. States that were swing states in 2000 - West Virginia, Arkansas - are now solidly Republican, and once solidly Democrat states - Iowa, Wisconsin - are now swingers. The redneck states push hard up against the Canadian border, where if your neck's red it's frostbite. Bush's incontinent rednecks are everywhere: they're so numerous they're running out of sisters to bunk up with.

Who exactly is being self-righteous here? In Britain and Europe, there seem to be two principal strains of Bush-loathing. First, the guys who say, "if you disagree with me, you must be an idiot" - as in the Mirror headline "How can 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?" Second, the guys who say, "if you disagree with me, you must be a Nazi" - as in Oliver James, who told The Guardian: "I was too depressed to even speak this morning. I thought of my late mother, who read Mein Kampf when it came out in the 1930s [sic] and thought, 'Why doesn't anyone see where this is leading?' " Mr James is a clinical psychologist.

If smug Europeans are going to coast on moron-Fascist sneers indefinitely, they'll be dooming themselves to ever more depressing mornings-after in the 2006 midterms, the 2008 presidential election, 2010, and beyond: America's resistance to the conventional wisdom of the rest of the developed world is likely to intensify in the years ahead. This widening gap is already a point of pride to the likes of B J Kelly of Killiney, who made the following observation on Friday's letters page in The Irish Times: "Here in the EU we objected recently to high office for a man who professed the belief that abortion and gay marriages are essentially evil. Over in the US such an outlook could have won him the presidency."

I'm not sure who he means by "we". As with most decisions taken in the corridors of Europower, the views of Killiney and Knokke and Krakow didn't come into it one way or the other. B J Kelly is referring to Rocco Buttiglione, the mooted European commissioner whose views on homosexuality, single parenthood, etc would have been utterly unremarkable for an Italian Catholic 30 years ago. Now Europe's secular elite has decided they're beyond the pale and such a man should have no place in public life. And B J Kelly sees this as evidence of how much more enlightened Europe is than America.

That's fine. But what happens if the European elite should decide a whole lot of other stuff is beyond the pale, too, some of it that B J Kelly is quite partial to? In affirming the traditional definition of marriage in 11 state referenda, from darkest Mississippi to progressive enlightened Kerry-supporting Oregon, the American people were not expressing their "gay-loathin' ", so much as declining to go the Kelly route and have their betters tell them what they can think. They're not going to have marriage redefined by four Massachusetts judges and a couple of activist mayors. That doesn't make them Bush theo-zombies marching in lockstep to the gay lynching, just freeborn citizens asserting their right to dissent from today's established church - the stifling coercive theology of political correctness enforced by a secular episcopate.

As Americans were voting on marriage and marijuana and other matters, the Rotterdam police were destroying a mural by Chris Ripke that he'd created to express his disgust at the murder of Theo van Gogh by Islamist crazies. Ripke's painting showed an angel and the words "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Unfortunately, his workshop is next to a mosque, and the imam complained that the mural was "racist", so the cops arrived, destroyed it, arrested the television journalists filming it and wiped their tape. Maybe that would ring a bell with Oliver James's mum.

The restrictions on expression that B J Kelly sees as evidence of European enlightenment are regarded as profoundly unhealthy by most Americans. When one examines Brian Reade's anatomy of redneck disfigurements - "gun-totin', military-lovin', abortion-hatin' " - most of them are about the will to survive, as individuals and as a society. Americans tote guns because they're assertive citizens, not docile subjects of a permanent governing class. They love their military because they think there's something contemptible about Europeans preening and posing as a great power when they can't even stop some nickel'n'dime Balkan genital-severers piling up hundreds of thousands of corpses on their borders.

And, if Americans do "hate abortion", is Mr Reade saying he loves it? It's at least partially responsible for the collapsed birthrates of post-Christian Europe. However superior the EU is to the US, it will only last as long as Mr Reade's generation: the design flaw of the radical secular welfare state is that it depends on a traditionally religious society birthrate to sustain it. True, you can't be a redneck in Spain or Italy: when the birthrates are 1.1 and 1.2 children per couple, there are no sisters to shag.

What was revealing about this election campaign was how little the condescending Europeans understand even about the side in American politics they purport to agree with - witness The Guardian's disastrous intervention in Clark County. Simon Schama last week week defined the Bush/Kerry divide as "Godly America" and "Worldly America", hailing the latter as "pragmatic, practical, rational and sceptical". That's exactly the wrong way round: it's Godly America that is rational and sceptical - especially of Euro-delusions. Uncowed by Islamists, undeferential to government, unshrivelled in its birthrates, Bush's redneck America is a more reliable long-term bet. Europe's media would do their readers a service if they stopped condescending to it.

Everybody ready to argue about this? ;-)

K
Last edited by: big kahuna: Nov 6, 04 18:20
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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It has all become a sad joke.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps. The saddest thing is it's no joke. They really believe this stuff. Hardest thing for me to figure out is why they think George Bush is evil and Yasser Arafat is a humanitarian. Somethin's fucked up in that logic.


Sean
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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BK,

You're preaching to the wrong audience with your multi pro Dubya posts on this forum. It's already full of right wing conservatives who think wearing blinkers is high fashion.

If you really want to convert the masses try preaching your message on another forum to people who live in Europe or the rest of the world. I'm sure they'll see your "logic". NOT.
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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BK,

You're preaching to the wrong audience with your multi pro Dubya posts on this forum. It's already full of right wing conservatives who think wearing blinkers is high fashion.

If you really want to convert the masses try preaching your message on another forum to people who live in Europe or the rest of the world. I'm sure they'll see your "logic". NOT.




I'm not right-wing, though I admit (said in a breathless tone) to being conservative. Your reaction to what Mr. Steyn had to say further illustrates the plight of the Left both here, in the United States, and in Europe in particular (i.e. tag or label the messenger as some sort of messianic rabid religionist hell-bent on the imposition of Taliban-style government).

And gee......after doing a little statistical analysis (using old chi square formulations, which are admittedly more for public health type studies (I'm terrible at Z testing ;-), I find that the majority (at LEAST 51%.....hey, where've I heard THAT number batted about these last few days? ;-) of posters in this forum hold what we'd call the classic liberal view. Or are all of you motivated solely by animus towards Republicans and Mr. Bush in particular, and don't particularly care for such a convenient categorization of your views. Hmmmm.....I wonder if those from the right side of the aisle are as uncomfortable wearing their label as those on the left seem to be?

But, I can just as easily post Maureen Dowd or Michael Kinsley, or articles from The Nation and others (surprisingly, I read them, too) if you want. Anyway.... I suppose, it's just too much fun to get leftists (especially you ;-) all into a tizzy over current events. The left does seem, after all, to suffer from a decided lack of humor about things, lately ;-)

Rhetorical question: Why is it the left in this country that tries to immediately silence any point of view that doesn't agree with their canon? I thought that used to be the job of the right? Seems to me all the best ideas about our country are coming from that quarter lately :-)

K






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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, I am going to argue!! big time!!

that bullshit generalization about americans that Mark Steyn complains about...

well in his 'article' he is doing exactly the same with Europeans...

The whole article is a load of crap...the same crap that Steyn complains about...

'HUH! Euros say we are this and that, but they are that and this"...from start to finish...

try something better BK, because obviously the guy is a jerk.
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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try something better BK, because obviously the guy is a jerk.



Francois, you've just went and made a liar of me. I, after all, said that between you and TTTorso, you were the less-passionate of the duo ;-))

But, do you see the point of what I'm saying? That instead of engaging the writer in a defense of the liberal position, that most committed liberals get all wound up in a fever and just start hurling epithets?

Cerveloguy and I are carrying on a thread about just this same thing right now. I don't recall an instance in which I've truly, seriously resorted to the "YOU ARE ALL LEFT-WING IDIOTS" rationalization. But I can honestly say that I've heard just that applied to the more right-wingish of us here in the forum.

And that serves to make my final point, which I've been developing since Wednesday morning: Dems are never going to be trusted with the levers of power as long as they try to run their movement based on pure disdain for the other side's position. They've got to articulate a clear, consistent vision for where THEY (not Europe) want THIS COUNTRY to head in the future.

It's a long and winding road. Hopefully they've got the gumption and the will to head on down it.

K


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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I take a queen led country's citizen ripping a democracy with about as much weight as I take a Frenchman criticizing how we defend our nation. Really.

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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Steyn is the senior North American columnist for Britain's Telegraph Group and is the North American columnist for the Spectator. He at least writes about American ideals and culture from the U.S. Unlike some of the bumbling punditocracy safely ensconced in their offices on Fleet Street back in the good old U.K. ;-)

K
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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To explain, once again, why the Dems have an uphill battle to reclaim the momentum:



Want to understand Kerry loss? Don't talk down to mid-America

As stunned Democrats scratch the dry earth for signs and glance heavenward for clues to the strange universe that re-elected George W. Bush, it seems unduly cruel to withhold what Ordinary Americans have known all along.

Herewith a few hints: Michael Moore, Bruce Springsteen, P. Diddy, Paris Hilton, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aniston, Bar- bra Streisand, Jon Bon Jovi, Uma Thurman, Kirsten Dunst, Leonardo DiCaprio, Teresa Heinz Kerry, Ron Reagan, MoveOn.org, Dan Rather, the French - and everyone else who would be speaking German today if not for the bravery and sacrifice of Ordinary Americans who today are held in such contempt by all of the above.

It's the elitism, mes freres.

Here's another clue: When courting voters in flyover states, one does not say: "I love you, stupid redneck morons." Especially not when sporting biking tights and straddling an $8,000 two-wheeler - a dollar amount, incidentally, that to many Ordinary Americans is a life's savings.

Not that John F. Kerry ever said such. But he didn't have to. Preening in luxury, surrounded by celebrity friends contemptuous of the values ordinary Americans hold dear, he might as well have waltzed down Beale Street whistling Dixie.

Never has a politician been so out of touch with the voters whose goals he purportedly shares. Nor has a party been so out of tune with the nation's defining song: "God Bless America."

The folks who re-elected Bush not only voted for the man they felt best represents their interests, but also against a culture they see as alien and hostile. The Bush vote was equally a protest against Hollywood, an increasingly untrustworthy news media and the puerile Michael Moore contingent.

What those three cultural entities have in common as viewed from America's heartland is an attitude of effete superiority that isn't just untenable but despised.

In Thursday's New York Times, cosmopolitan New Yorkers grappling with Kerry's unthinkable defeat told the story.

Beverly Camhe, a film producer, Zito Joseph, a retired psychiatrist, and Roberta Kimmel Cohn, an art dealer - elite New Yorkers all - were stunned. In Joseph's words, Bush voters are "obtuse," "short-sighted," "redneck," "shoot-from-the-hip" religious literalists.

"New Yorkers are more sophisticated and at a level of consciousness where we realize we have to think of globalization, of one mankind, that what's going to injure masses of people is not good for us," Joseph said as he shared coffee and cigarettes with Cohn at an outdoor cafe.

The two-America divide isn't fiction after all. And the division, as nearly everyone has noted, is about values.

But what the Democrats got wrong, and what the Times subjects seem to be missing, is that traditional values and sophistication are not mutually exclusive. Nor does sophistication equate to intelligence, we hasten to add.

People who believe in heterosexual marriage because the traditional family model best serves children and therefore society are not ipso facto homophobic.

Americans vexed about our casual disregard for human life are not necessarily Stepford-Neanderthals. And those people who believe in some power greater than themselves are not always rubes.

In small towns across the nation, especially in the Deep South, one can find plenty of well-traveled, multilingual, latté-loving, Ivy-educated Ph.D.s, if that's your measure of sophistication.

But they're not snobs, nor do they sneer at people who pay more than lip service to traditional values. In fact, they often share those very values in quiet, thoughtful, deliberative ways.

The Democratic Party is now entering the post-election navel-gazing stage of self-recrimination and analysis. How did it lose the very people who are supposed to be its target constituents?

The puzzle is not that the Democrats lost, but that they can't see how. It's simple:

• When Michael Moore, the unkempt, perennially juvenile propagandist, is the face of your party, you lose the grownups.

• When a gum-smacking Ben Affleck is your most articulate celebrity spokesman, you lose regular folks too busy with bills and children to (a) give a rip what Ben Affleck thinks or (b) figure out who he is.

• When the news media position, inflate or distort news to advance their political agenda, you lose fair-minded Americans who would rather go with an ordinary man who shares their values than with the pampered darling of the New York bistro set. In a nutshell.

Getting back to real America won't be an easy trip for many of those now seeking answers. As any of those evangelical Christians who voted Bush will tell you, you have to believe before you can see.


K
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Well, if your point was to say there are tons of idiots around, heck, you didn't need a 100 line long post for that! I could have told you...

Basically, most of us here will have at some stage, agree to disagree because we believe in different ideologies. However, I do understand that people believe in other things. Not a problem with this. This isn't much different than religion....there is just a tiny bit more of rationality in it, but not that much.
That's pretty much like discussions between a catholic and a protestant trying to convince each other that their view is the best.

Now, you can argue in an educated way, trying to justify your position and get to learn, refine your vision, possibly change your point of view on specific aspects, without changing your whole belief system. This is the goal of any discussion. We are not trying to convince anyone.

There are plenty of intelligent people on both sides. There are plenty of idiots. The proportion are pretty much the same on both sides (just a bit more on the right, because you elected the wrong guy ;-))

The 'discussions' that end up into name calling....etc. that I despise...

Or comments like the one of TripleThreat below your post...

If it comes from someone who is from a country led by a Queen, it's BS, and military advice from a frenchman is crap...
This is exactly the kind of stereotypes that are described and criticized in the paper of Steyn.
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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If it comes from someone who is from a country led by a Queen, it's BS, and military advice from a frenchman is crap...

You should recognize sarcasm ... or at least attempts at humor when you see them by now.

1. A king-Queen led country that does not have free elections does not really have the right to rip on the results of a country that does have them. It's like a non-athlete making fun of an athletefor "not winning".

someone posted a British Newspaper headline the other day saying "How can 54 million Amerifcans be this dumb". It seemed weird coming from someone who follows a leader determined by who their great-great-great-great grandfather (or whoever) was.

2. The French joke ... referring to WW2 when the French defended Paris like a starving lion defending his catch. =)

I have a strong bias towards non-active critics keeping their mouth shut. I should have just said, "I value those opinions like I value the opinion of a sports columnists that never even played little league".

The intent was not to punch somebody in the face, but to get people to ask if they are really qualified to make the statements they made.

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
To explain, once again, why the Dems have an uphill battle to reclaim the momentum:



Want to understand Kerry loss? Don't talk down to mid-America

As stunned Democrats scratch the dry earth for signs and glance heavenward for clues to the strange universe that re-elected George W. Bush, it seems unduly cruel to withhold what Ordinary Americans have known all along.

Herewith a few hints: Michael Moore, Bruce Springsteen, P. Diddy, Paris Hilton, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aniston, Bar- bra Streisand, Jon Bon Jovi, Uma Thurman, Kirsten Dunst, Leonardo DiCaprio, Teresa Heinz Kerry, Ron Reagan, MoveOn.org, Dan Rather, the French - and everyone else who would be speaking German today if not for the bravery and sacrifice of Ordinary Americans who today are held in such contempt by all of the above.

It's the elitism, mes freres.

Here's another clue: When courting voters in flyover states, one does not say: "I love you, stupid redneck morons." Especially not when sporting biking tights and straddling an $8,000 two-wheeler - a dollar amount, incidentally, that to many Ordinary Americans is a life's savings.

Not that John F. Kerry ever said such. But he didn't have to. Preening in luxury, surrounded by celebrity friends contemptuous of the values ordinary Americans hold dear, he might as well have waltzed down Beale Street whistling Dixie.

Never has a politician been so out of touch with the voters whose goals he purportedly shares. Nor has a party been so out of tune with the nation's defining song: "God Bless America."

The folks who re-elected Bush not only voted for the man they felt best represents their interests, but also against a culture they see as alien and hostile. The Bush vote was equally a protest against Hollywood, an increasingly untrustworthy news media and the puerile Michael Moore contingent.

What those three cultural entities have in common as viewed from America's heartland is an attitude of effete superiority that isn't just untenable but despised.

In Thursday's New York Times, cosmopolitan New Yorkers grappling with Kerry's unthinkable defeat told the story.

Beverly Camhe, a film producer, Zito Joseph, a retired psychiatrist, and Roberta Kimmel Cohn, an art dealer - elite New Yorkers all - were stunned. In Joseph's words, Bush voters are "obtuse," "short-sighted," "redneck," "shoot-from-the-hip" religious literalists.

"New Yorkers are more sophisticated and at a level of consciousness where we realize we have to think of globalization, of one mankind, that what's going to injure masses of people is not good for us," Joseph said as he shared coffee and cigarettes with Cohn at an outdoor cafe.

The two-America divide isn't fiction after all. And the division, as nearly everyone has noted, is about values.

But what the Democrats got wrong, and what the Times subjects seem to be missing, is that traditional values and sophistication are not mutually exclusive. Nor does sophistication equate to intelligence, we hasten to add.

People who believe in heterosexual marriage because the traditional family model best serves children and therefore society are not ipso facto homophobic.

Americans vexed about our casual disregard for human life are not necessarily Stepford-Neanderthals. And those people who believe in some power greater than themselves are not always rubes.

In small towns across the nation, especially in the Deep South, one can find plenty of well-traveled, multilingual, latté-loving, Ivy-educated Ph.D.s, if that's your measure of sophistication.

But they're not snobs, nor do they sneer at people who pay more than lip service to traditional values. In fact, they often share those very values in quiet, thoughtful, deliberative ways.

The Democratic Party is now entering the post-election navel-gazing stage of self-recrimination and analysis. How did it lose the very people who are supposed to be its target constituents?

The puzzle is not that the Democrats lost, but that they can't see how. It's simple:

• When Michael Moore, the unkempt, perennially juvenile propagandist, is the face of your party, you lose the grownups.

• When a gum-smacking Ben Affleck is your most articulate celebrity spokesman, you lose regular folks too busy with bills and children to (a) give a rip what Ben Affleck thinks or (b) figure out who he is.

• When the news media position, inflate or distort news to advance their political agenda, you lose fair-minded Americans who would rather go with an ordinary man who shares their values than with the pampered darling of the New York bistro set. In a nutshell.

Getting back to real America won't be an easy trip for many of those now seeking answers. As any of those evangelical Christians who voted Bush will tell you, you have to believe before you can see.


K


BK;

Are you really in SF? Or holed up in your one room cabin in Montana writing your Manestos? :-)

Keep on writing! :-)
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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This is exactly the kind of stereotypes that are described and criticized in the paper of Steyn.

Possibly. But, maybe he's also trying to answer and explain why popular media outlets like the Mirror feel free to issue forth a proclamation that the 59 million American citizens are "dumb" just because they voted for Bush.

I admit a hint of "come get your comeuppance" from him, but I think the wider point was an examination of the cultural divide that separates post-Christian Europe from a majority of Americans who aren't entirely accepting of a blatant European desire for the defeat of a sitting U.S. President. After all, it was Jacques Chirac whom recently excoriated the Bush administration for urging the EU to consider the admittance of Turkey into its organization. The Guardian's ham-handed attempt at bringing the European view of our election to the citizens of Clark Country, Ohio, was just icing on the cake ;-)

This could be a case of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander", in a sense.

K
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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you'll notice that it's becoming increasingly difficult to remember who said what and therefore without the tone, the sarcasm can be missed...sorry if I missed it.
That said, the UK is not really led by a Queen/King...it's more for the image...it's as much led by a Queen as Spain is led by a Kind.

Eventually, I give as much weight to the Daily Mirror as I give to The National Enquirer, Paris Match, etc...that's trash...not even remotely close to journalism.
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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You should give as much weight to this 'article' as to an article like 'kid with two heads and 4 arms was abducted by Aliens' on the Nat. Enq.
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
You should give as much weight to this 'article' as to an article like 'kid with two heads and 4 arms was abducted by Aliens' on the Nat. Enq.
For clarification which article? Styen's or The Mirrors?
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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It's not a news article. I pulled it from the Opinion page of the Telegraph. Hence, it's just that: an opinion. Explication, also, but he's paid to write an opinion (which I've said before is like a sphincter....everyone has one ;-) He does give, though, a cogent explanation of current perceived Euro snobbery by the American populace who voted for Dubya. And a politican ignores the electorate at his or her peril.

My point is that political parties need to avoid the finger-pointing and navel-gazing that goes on after an election that they lose. It doesn't accomplish anything, and just serves, in many instances, to further reinforce the belief that if they just shout louder next time, well, by golly, the electorate will finally come to its senses and see the truth in its positions. Not gonna happen.

The Democratic Party has to completely reexamine itself. That doesn't mean it should just become a slightly bluer imitation of the Republicans, though. But it does mean that it's got to find a way to at least respect the beliefs of at least 51% of the electorate, rather than look down its nose at it.

I say this as a former conservative Democrat, born and raised in a Teamster/Ironworker/UAW household, and who walked picket lines as a 10 year old with my construction electrician father. He eventually ended up with General Motors as a Master electrician (geez.....he still gets more for an emergency housecall than most doctors do ;-) and a now-current Detroit city employee.

Hopefully, the Dems can learn from this.

Hopefully.



K.
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Time for me to run. We're going down to Waikiki tonight to walk the beach and enjoy the tropical breezes :-))

Gawd, I love my life :-)

K
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [Trevor S] [ In reply to ]
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both
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

I'm not right-wing, though I admit (said in a breathless tone) to being conservative. ... Rhetorical question: Why is it the left in this country ...


There is no left in the US and conservatives in the US are extreme-right :-)

Axel
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Re: More Euro-Superiority: From Mark Steyn [cync67] [ In reply to ]
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There is no left in the US and conservatives in the US are extreme-right :-)

Axel


What do you mean? Explain how this is so.



K
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