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Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea?
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I don't care either way. I really want to know who's behind this agenda, though.

Here's what I think I know-

Most religions speak of how same sex relationships are condemned as sin, whatever. The teachings of religion express anti-gay or no-gay bias. So those who are exposed to religion are exposed to this education.

There are not enough gay people in the US to ever create the population majority needed to pass any type of legislation. This means they need to gain sympathy, pity, empathy or some other way to get non-gays to help them with their cause.

Most people I know who are not gay, but strongly support gay marriage are white, middle to upper-middle class, socially liberal people. I've read, seen and heard that <generalization>African Americans oppose gays and/or gay marriage </generalization>. Is this true and what about other ethnicities. Does it matter?


Sean
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [haystack] [ In reply to ]
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You looking for a really sharp needle in a haystack.
Personally, I don't support it at all.
It does nothing to help the country.
It isn't really a legal issue.
Ultimatly marriage is a religious act anyway.
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [haystack] [ In reply to ]
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About 10% of the population thinks it's a good idea.

Karl Rove and the GOP think it's a great idea....for winning elections.

The rational approach to this issue is to realize that the state has overstepped it's constitutional bounds in licensing "marriage".

I use quotes to denote the significance of the word "marriage" as it is the word "marriage" that the populace objects to when combined with that other devious word..."gay".

When people are asked if they support civil unions for gays that are the de facto equivalent of gay marriage, approval is significantly higher.

So the logical (not that logical is popular or even realistic) solution is to strike the word marriage from the legal document that couples (straight or otherwise) are granted by the state and replace it with legal union or some other secular euphemism. It can then be on a level with a drivers license or a zoning permit. Just another legal document to get from the state.

Then if individuals want their union to be sacred they can go to god or his appointed representative for that.

My own opinion is that marriage isn't all it's cracked up to be anyhow...unless of course there happens to be an heiress involved.
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [YabYum] [ In reply to ]
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rational approach to this issue is to realize that the state has overstepped it's constitutional bounds in licensing "marriage".

What constitutional bounds?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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What constitutional bounds?


I premise this on the common understanding of marriage as "holy" matrimony; a "sacred" union. This may not be a part of the legal definition of marriage but is commonly understood to be so.

So I'm contending that this is a 1st amendment issue. Decisions of who can enter into this sacred union is a matter for god, individuals, and the clergy. This is marriage.

Thus the state's role ought to be limited to providing legal unions between consenting adults. This is a contract.

Thankfully sanctity is beyond the purview of the state, and marriage, be it only a word, is not the business of government.

Opposition to gay marriage is huge, but I don't think the public is nearly as opposed to gays being able to visit their partner's deathbed and the like.

So leave marriage to the church and legal contracts to the government. I think it profanity when either oversteps these bounds.
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [YabYum] [ In reply to ]
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I use quotes to denote the significance of the word "marriage" as it is the word "marriage" that the populace objects to when combined with that other devious word..."gay".

The populace also objects when the words "man and 2 women" or "woman and 2 men" and "brother and sister" and "cousins" are used next to marriage. So, rationally, the populace hates groups of men and women, brothers and sisters, and of course, cousins.

Why do folks still have the blinders on when looking at this issue? It AIN'T ABOUT GAYS! Gay people are just the latest group to challenge the definition of marriage. The others have been denied without attention, fanfare, or political influence.

One should ask, "Why are gays getting so much special attention?"

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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Personally I don't support it either.. but, I'm not the one being denied access to a privege of being married.

I go beyond what I feel... I prefer to see it from their position.

Same sex marriages will not effect my beliefs one ioda. I'm just not that insecure. And, I don't see it hurting the country... in fact, it won't do anything except allow a certain group of people the equivalent rights to "pursue happiness". Anything less is un-American (IMO). Marriage is primarilly a legal issue. If you don't believe that... try and get access to Health Insurance or medical power of attorney for a "non-family" member.

Bottom line, I simply don't feel threaten by gay marriages. And, America has survive the elimination of many other prejudicial base beliefs (i.e., such as slavery, womens suffrage, civil rights) and been better for it.

FWIW Joe Moya
Last edited by: Joe M: Nov 6, 04 22:05
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [Joe M] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know. If they legalize gay marriage, I'm thinking of leaving my wife and partner of 7 years, and abandoning my 30 some odd year history of being heterosexual for some man-meat.

Yeah, I can see why gay marriage harms traditional marriage.
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [rb5980] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I don't know. If they legalize gay marriage, I'm thinking of leaving my wife and partner of 7 years, and abandoning my 30 some odd year history of being heterosexual for some man-meat.


Why should you? I do not leave my husband for some "woman-meat", just because hetrosexuals are allowed to marry.

Cheers Torsten
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [DragAttack] [ In reply to ]
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Oh that is brilliant. I score that 10 out of 10. Great job.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [ In reply to ]
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People think gays are spending all day doing the wucka - wucka ,and redecorating their homes , far from it . The funny thing is contractors or home improvement people say if they get a call with just a slight sound of GAYNESS they love it ,when there are two male incomes ( and none of that slowed female decision making ,for the style or color) It cuts the deal making time to one tenth,

Payment is assured ,,,, Money heals all differences
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
You looking for a really sharp needle in a haystack.
Personally, I don't support it at all.
It does nothing to help the country.
It isn't really a legal issue.
Ultimatly marriage is a religious act anyway.

It does help the country. Gays (and lesbians - I eonder why they are always forgotten) are part of the country ant they would gain a lot. Since nobody loses anything, the country will gain by averege.

It is not only a religious issue. It`s very much about respect. It`s about to accept the partner as part of the family, as well in private matters as in legal matters. Last but not least its about showing young homosexuals, who feel that they are but don`t know yet how to deal with it, that being homosexuel doesn`t make them perverted by any means and that they can be a part of society the way they are.

I do agree with YabYum. IMO it doesn`t matter whether its called marriage or for example civil union (even so I can`t understand why it shouldn`t be called marriage). Todays situation without the possibility of making their relationship official I consider as discriminating.

Cheers Torsten
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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Here is a quote from CBS News:

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Many people make a distinction between same-sex marriage and civil unions, which would provide same-sex couples some legal rights. Although fewer than one-fourth of Americans think gay and lesbian people should be allowed to marry, there is larger support for permitting civil unions. All in all, over half of Americans support some type of legal status for same-sex couples who wish to make a long-term commitment. 40% think same-sex couples' relationships ought to have no legal recognition.


So the polling data does support the case for semantics that I suggest.

The logical solution is then to let the government give all couples the legal equivalent of marriage if they want it, and let the churches tack on the sacred, holy matrimony bits that the populace feels so strongly about.

In Reply To:
The populace also objects when the words "man and 2 women" or "woman and 2 men" and "brother and sister" and "cousins" are used next to marriage. So, rationally, the populace hates groups of men and women, brothers and sisters, and of course, cousins.


I think polygamy, exogamy, incest are separate issues that only distract from the case at hand. But since you went there. I don't see what right the government has to regulate polygamy/exogamy. These are adults consentually entering into a contract? Then what is the problem?

As for minors, they deserve the full protection of the law and should be prohibited from entering into a contract, any contract.

My own belief is that state laws regarding, sex & marriage are largely archaic and due for revision. Gays in rural Texas shouldn't face jail time for doing the wuck-wucka.
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [DragAttack] [ In reply to ]
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lol... literalism meets sarcasm...

I call it a tie in the world of sound bites.

joe
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [Joe M] [ In reply to ]
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What many of you are missing is the reason of why many gays want marraige. It is, unless I have been severly mislead, largely the same as why civil unions were pushed in Sweden in the 80s. Most gay people do not wish to get married. Gays wanted social acceptance and to be able to live a relatively normal life unmolested by their society. By installing gay marraige, they hope to promote acceptance by making their unions, if they so choose, legal. No one can deny that being gay in the US sucks. Yes, it is better to be gay here now than ever before. But it still sucks. There are extraordinary numbers of hate crimes, including murders against these people. Not to mention other legal forms of discrimination. I have a friend who is gay and recently came out of the closet to his parents. His father now barely speaks to him. His mother will not speak to him unless it is to pray for his 'healing'. His twin brother started screaming at him at a party to just screw some girl and get it over with. When he refused, he beat the crap out of him. And that is just the family. If legalizing gay marriage might help him or others live a better life, I don't see how someone could not want that to happen.
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Re: Gay Marriage. Who really thinks it's a "good" idea? [turtles] [ In reply to ]
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Turtle

I'm not missing the point...

Simply put, prohibiting the legal marriage of gay people is a denial of the same privilages that other married people currently have.

Your preaching to the choir. I even will go further... laws that prevent gays from being married is but another form of bigotry.

FWIW Joe Moya
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