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Troubling Renn story...
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A friend who did 1/2 IM Cali told me the guy in front of him crashed when his Renn disk wheel failed. Apparently the rim came apart from the disk itself going around a steep downhill curve. While waiting with the guy for medical support, the guy said he had only had the wheel for two weeks. So PLEASE be careful if that isthe wheel that you are riding...
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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Yikes. This might be one of those threads that Slowman ends up pulling, so I'll post my response while I have the chance.

There were a lot of Renn Discs used at that race over the weekend, mine included. I was certainly very happy with the performance of mine. It is very unfortunate that one apparently failed, on a descent no less. I hope the rider is okay. I would stop short however of using a broad brush to paint Renn wheels as unsafe. Wheels fail, no manufacturer is exempt.

If it happened on the descent I'm thinking of, there was a no passing rule in effect and a lot of braking was required. While riding it, I was thinking of the heat my brakes might be generating and was mindful not to ride the brakes. I wonder if excessive heating played a role.
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
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I think it happened in the area whose nickname I won't use out of respect to P.R. I only worry because while I think Renn's are a great, maybe fantastic wheel for the price, I don't know if Frank has done the amount of testing I assume Zipp/Hed/etc. have done, nor has he had the number of total mile on his products that his competitors have. I definitely hope that this is an isolated case.
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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i think you only have half the story correct. there was a renn disc failure but he did not crash. i say think only because i have talked to one person that had a failure and he did not crash. if there is another i'd like to hear about it.

the disc that failed that i know about was of the current build methodology. we had 29 rim separations early in our production but have since made over 600 using the current glue. one of these had a rim separation because of a mix up in width of composite. this ones sounds like the same thing happened only this one the composite for a 700 was used for a 650. the present failure was perhaps 650 composite used for a 700. the width differ by only .010 of an inch but can create bad bonds if they a mixed.

i will post our finding as soon as i know.

we do test our wheels and follow all recommendations from our different vendors (i.e. 3M, our epoxy supplier)

this is my personal nightmare. when we had the original problem we recalled many wheels and did everything to insure this never would happen again.

frank rehnelt

renn multisport
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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A in FL,

I mean no disrespect, but people crash for many reasons and parts break for many reasons often having nothing to do with the manufacturer. It's also not uncommon for people reverse cause and effect after a crash rather than admit their own error. Not knowing any of the parties involved, to hear third hand about a single crash in a single race provides virtually no information regarding the quality of Renn disks. Before making any judgment regarding Renn disks, I'd like a lot more information about this particular crash and about people's experience riding and maintaining these wheels.

Your final comment about being careful applies equally to all equipment.

Tony Geller
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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"So PLEASE be careful if that isthe wheel that you are riding..."

I would like to hear more specifics. I have ridden Renn discs since 2001 and I have have had ZERO problems. When one wheel's bond had failed (and he said that it was one), Frank contacted me (which almost never happens in the case of others doing a recall) and told me to unglue the tyre and send him that wheel back. I have ridden the new wheel for a year and a half with over 200 race and training miles (I do races with 30 mile or fewer bike miles and only ride my race wheels on the bike for 5-10 miles a few days before each race).

As long as the person who had the wheel has been made whole with the replacement of another wheel, I see no problem. These things can happen with ANY wheel on the market (unless the rim and disc body is one piece, which NONE of them are), including regular spoked wheels. Racing IS a dangerous sport, which can yield the occasional freak accident.

The Renn disc is STILL the best value out there, for certain.
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [Frank Rehnelt] [ In reply to ]
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"but have since made over 600 using the current glue"

it is common for wheel makers--even the best of them--to have problems along the way with the bond between composite and aluminum braking surface. any company who has this mode of construction has put out a bad batch at some point in its history.

it is of no issue to me that this disc wheel has had a former mishap in a batch. what is of issue is that when there is a concern, that the manufacturer handle it correctly. it seems to me like frank has done so, and i would have no concern riding his wheels.

furthermore, i would suspect that if a wheel was going to fail during a race, there would very likely be a hint of the problem prior to the race, and so i of course check my wheels (as well as the rest of my bike) very closely before a race. likewise, i check my tires for cuts, etc.

this is no different than the way it was when i first made wetsuits, and we'd get a batch of glue that wasn't good, or in the earliest days, when we didn't know for sure how long a given glue would hold. after a bit of trial and error i got to where i'd know whether a glue was good, and i'd be able to recognize a bad batch from its color or texture. frank seems to me he's already had his "learning experiences."

i don't see anything here that i haven't seen with other wheel companies. i wouldn't hesitate to ride frank's disc.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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Since i wasn't there, I don't know what really happened. But when i hear stories like this i often wonder what happened first. Did he flat and then crash (i assume he crashed)? Does he know for sure the disc came apart first or maybe the crash caused it to happen?

I ask this because I am related to the lawyer that represented a large class action lawsuit against Spinergy for their Rev X failures. I read many of the "cases" but was convinced on only one of the cases that the wheel caused the failure (this is only my opinion and if any of you out there were part of the suit, don't fault me, i was only a bystander). The jury felt the same. They found in favor of Spinergy.

It's always best to get as many of the facts straight as possible before forming an opinion.

Take it for what it's worth.

AL
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [Frank Rehnelt] [ In reply to ]
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Frank, I'll tell you brother- I respect your candor and openess in discussing this. Good for you. I would have no compunctions against trying the product.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I raced my new Renn for the first time in March in a sprint tri, over pretty bad road surfaces as well as very smooth road surfaces, top speed was 36 mph. Rock solid. Unless we get rained out tomorrow, I'll race it in a 10 mile TT, and every other race I do this year... including the mountainous ones. I'll check it over after every race just like I do any wheel. I'm very impressed with the wheel thus far.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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i feel a bit obligated to reply on this one.

Last year (about this time) i ordered a renn and pushed Frank to get it to me in time for Saint Anthony's. He went out of his way to get it to me and i recieved it two days before the race. I glued it and put about 2 miles of "make sure it rides testing" on it before the race. Well, a few miles into the race, (a technical course btw) i start hearing a knocking and feel a slight wobble. I felt like i had no power and was struggling to hold speed. i stopped to check the wheel and noticed that the valve core was missing (i would soon find out that it was ripping through the internal composite around the wheel). I couldn't fix it so i kept riding. It got progressively worse, and by mile 15 it was almost un-ridable. I rode it another mile or so and it finally died.

I wasn't too pleased, but life goes on, i contacted Frank and he had a new wheel at my door in 3 days. He does have great customer service. I sent the broken one back to the wrong address, it was returned and i sent it back again, i have no idea if Frank ever saw the broken wheel, but the failure was pretty obvious at the rim-composite bond.

Since then i have raced the new wheel and put some very good training on it to make sure i trusted the wheel, it has held up fine.
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [Frank Rehnelt] [ In reply to ]
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Frank is right--the guy didn't crash. My friend was the marshall on the curve and she saw the entire thing. Her quote: "Luckily the cyclist was sticking to the 25 MPH rule and managed to stay upright."

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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Bottom line: No product is foolproof. I also truly believe that the more sophisticated and lighter the product, the more likely failure can happen (although most of us never experience total product failure caused by the product alone). I recently experienced a hub shattering in the middle of a hard, fast ride. The wheel was a HED deep rear (only 6 mos. old). I sent it back to HED, and they found the cause. According to them, they found a major ding in the rim itself at the spokes connecting directly into the piece of the hub that shattered. The assumption, probably correct, is that I hit a major pothole. Don't reall that I did, but very possible considering where I ride. HED nevertheless stepped way up to the plate with a crash replacement policy. They agreed to replace the HUB free of charge (keep riding the dinged rim), or replace the entire wheel for $150. I talked them into sending me a HED 3 for the $150. From my perspective, that is customer service. My friends that ride Renns say the service is comparable and the quality of the product is high. So stop being concerned.
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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More along the same comments. I had one of the previous renn disc wheels that had a rim seperation problem. As someone else mentioned their was a distintive knocking noise when the wheel rotated with me on the bike. At eagleman last year I noticed the problem and actually still road on the wheel. I e-mailed Frank and he told me to take the tire off and check the wheel/rim. It wa seperating as he said it may be. Frank was extremely forth right and did not hide any details.

In retropsect, I was lucky that the wheel did not fail during the race. But I knew something was wrong and took the risk myself. I truly hope the triathlete racing the renn was not hurt. But their were indications that something was wrong.

Frank had superior service and had a new wheel to me within a week. I even told I would not be racing on a disk for 7 weeks, so their was no rush.



I am confident what ever the problem is Frank will rectify it and stand behind his product.



Rockfish

aka Greg Sheehan
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [RA] [ In reply to ]
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If it means anything, I will be confident racing on my Renn Disc this weekend. No worries. If you're at Escape from Ft. Desoto look out for the Marty Gaal impersonator on the slowtwitch.com approved Louis Garneau TT/renn/cervelo/hed combination. ;)

Keep up the good work over there at Renn!
Last edited by: Zinc: Apr 8, 03 9:14
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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Frank's response makes me admire him more than I previously did (which was quite a bit anyway). This is the kind of post that can seriously harm a person's (or business') reputation. I have always thought that Frank was on the cutting edge with his wheel -- a jam up product, excellent customer service, and all that at an affordable price (something hard to find in the cycling industry). I ordered a Renn disc last week, something I have been wanting to do for a long time. I bought it based on the excellent information I have received from this forum (namely from the Bunnyman) and because of its incredible price. One bad product does not mean that an entire product line is defective. This thread should have never been started, and I wish people would take all of this into consideration before they post potentially damaging messages.

Frank, you obviously have lots of friends out there, many of whom you may not know. Rest assured that yours is one of the best companies in the cycling industry, and your commitment to customer service, price and quality will always speak for itself.

Robert "Soon To Be A Proud Renn Disc Owner" Preston
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [Zinc] [ In reply to ]
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hey, you can't impersonate me if I'm gonna be there!!

MG

Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Swim Series | Old School Aquathon Series
Powerstroke® Freestyle Technique DVD
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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There is more to the story. Yes this persons disc failed. No he did not crash. And Frank has shown a great deal of concern and consideration for this person.
I was at Ralphs this past weekend with this person (Mark). We both Flew down from Alaska for our first race of the season. I had purchased a Renn disc several weeks prior to Mark. I was able to use it outdoors twice prior to the race and had no problems. Marks wheel arrived about a week prior to us leaving for California. The temperatures here had been between 10 to 30 degrees with ice on the roads which did not allow Mark a chance to road test his wheel.
At about 40 miles into the race, Marks rear tire flatted on the steep decent with the speed limit. He stopped without incident. When he went to change the tire, the wheel was too hot to touch. He then noticed that the composite had separated from the rim and had rotated about 25 degrees. He did not need medical attention (though his head got sunburnt waiting for tech. support.)
Mark is a competitive age group triathlete who has done multiple ironmans and qualified many times for Hawaii. He also has a great sense of humor and is able to keep racing in the proper perspective. He was disappointed that he could not finish the race but he also knows that sometimes things just go wrong.
After the race I suggested that he give Frank at Renn a call and let him know what happened. Frank expressed a great deal of concern and promised to make it right. Then yesterday, Frank contacted Mark back in Alaska to again tell him that he felt bad that his disc had failed. He assured Mark that he would send him a new wheel. He also said he would cover Marks entry into Ralphs and replace his tire.
There is no question that Frank makes his best effort to provide a quality disc at a reasonable price. And like all products, occasionally some fail for whatever reason. Frank has shown exceptional customer service and concern. This is not usual of most other products.
However, Mark and I had a bet that the winner had to buy dinner that night. Since I can't swim to save my life and struggled in at 5:13, I fully expected a free meal. Frank, can you make that right?

Rob
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Re: Troubling Renn story... [A in Fl] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
A friend who did 1/2 IM Cali told me the guy in front of him crashed when his Renn disk wheel failed. Apparently the rim came apart from the disk itself going around a steep downhill curve. While waiting with the guy for medical support, the guy said he had only had the wheel for two weeks. So PLEASE be careful if that isthe wheel that you are riding...
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