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Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions:
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I live in Toronto, and for the past few years I've done all my winter running (incl. 'speed' work etc) outside during the winter - mainly because I hated treadmills. For the past few years I've picked up a bunch of cold related injuries - usually related to slipping on ice - so this year I've tried to deal with the boredom and done my faster stuff on a treadmill.

Sooooo, what I'm interested in finding out is how treadmill running compares to running outside, wrt speed (is 10 mph on a treadmill really the same as 10mph on the pavement?), muscle utilisation (is a moving mat different from stationary ground in terms of the muscles you use to move 'forward'?) and any other differences that people have noticed. And, if there are any big differences, how to set up a treadmill to get around them. When I've had VO2 tests done on treadmills in the past they've been set initially at 1% grades - which is what I've been using for training without having any clue why. Is there anything else that people have found useful/problematic in transferring road workouts to treadmills?
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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I do not remember where I found this but it is on the www some where?

CM

Equivalent Pace-per-Mile on Various Incline Settings on the Treadmill MPH setting Flat Road Pace * 0%* 1% 2% 3% 4% 5% 6% 7% 8% 9% 10% on a treadmill 5 12:00 12:31 11:44 11:05 10:32 10:03 9:38 9:16 8:56 8:38 8:22 8:07 5.2 11:32 12:02 11:18 10:42 10:11 9:44 9:20 8:59 8:40 8:23 8:08 7:54 5.4 11:07 11:35 10:55 10:20 9:51 9:26 9:03 8:43 8:25 8:09 7:55 7:41 5.6 10:43 11:10 10:32 10:00 9:33 9:09 8:48 8:29 8:12 7:56 7:42 7:29 5.8 10:21 10:47 10:12 9:42 9:16 8:53 8:33 8:15 7:58 7:44 7:30 7:18 6 10:00 10:26 9:52 9:24 9:00 8:38 8:19 8:02 7:46 7:32 7:19 7:07 6.1 9:50 10:15 9:43 9:16 8:52 8:31 8:12 7:55 7:40 7:26 7:14 7:02 6.2 9:41 10:05 9:34 9:08 8:44 8:24 8:06 7:49 7:34 7:21 7:08 6:57 6.3 9:31 9:56 9:26 9:00 8:37 8:17 7:59 7:43 7:29 7:15 7:03 6:52 6.4 9:23 9:46 9:17 8:52 8:30 8:10 7:53 7:37 7:23 7:10 6:58 6:47 6.5 9:14 9:37 9:09 8:45 8:23 8:04 7:47 7:32 7:18 7:05 6:53 6:43 6.6 9:05 9:29 9:01 8:37 8:16 7:58 7:41 7:26 7:13 7:00 6:49 6:38 6.7 8:57 9:20 8:53 8:30 8:10 7:52 7:35 7:21 7:07 6:55 6:44 6:34 6.8 8:49 9:12 8:45 8:23 8:03 7:46 7:30 7:15 7:02 6:50 6:40 6:29 6.9 8:42 9:04 8:39 8:17 7:57 7:40 7:24 7:10 6:58 6:46 6:35 6:25 7 8:34 8:56 8:32 8:10 7:51 7:34 7:19 7:05 6:53 6:41 6:31 6:21 7.1 8:27 8:49 8:25 8:04 7:45 7:29 7:14 7:00 6:48 6:37 6:27 6:17 7.2 8:20 8:41 8:18 7:58 7:40 7:23 7:09 6:56 6:44 6:33 6:22 6:13 7.3 8:13 8:34 8:12 7:52 7:34 7:18 7:04 6:51 6:39 6:28 6:18 6:09 7.4 8:06 8:27 8:05 7:46 7:28 7:13 6:59 6:46 6:35 6:24 6:14 6:05 7.5 8:00 8:20 7:59 7:40 7:23 7:08 6:54 6:42 6:31 6:20 6:11 6:02 7.6 7:54 8:14 7:53 7:34 7:18 7:03 6:50 6:38 6:26 6:16 6:07 5:58 7.7 7:48 8:07 7:47 7:29 7:13 6:58 6:45 6:33 6:22 6:12 6:03 5:55 7.8 7:42 8:01 7:41 7:24 7:08 6:54 6:41 6:29 6:18 6:09 5:59 5:51 7.9 7:36 7:55 7:36 7:18 7:03 6:49 6:37 6:25 6:15 6:05 5:56 5:48 8 7:30 7:49 7:30 7:13 6:58 6:45 6:32 6:21 6:11 6:01 5:52 5:44 8.1 7:24 7:43 7:25 7:08 6:54 6:40 6:28 6:17 6:07 5:58 5:49 5:41 8.2 7:19 7:38 7:20 7:04 6:49 6:36 6:24 6:13 6:03 5:54 5:46 5:38 8.3 7:14 7:32 7:15 9:59 6:45 6:32 6:20 6:10 6:00 5:51 5:42 5:35 8.4 7:09 7:27 7:10 6:54 6:40 6:28 6:16 6:06 5:56 5:47 5:29 5:32 8.5 7:04 7:22 7:05 6:50 6:36 6:24 6:13 6:02 5:53 5:44 5:36 5:29 8.6 6:59 7:16 7:00 6:45 6:32 6:20 6:09 5:59 5:49 5:41 5:33 5:26 8.7 6:54 7:11 6:55 6:41 6:28 6:16 6:05 5:55 5:46 5:38 5:30 5:23 8.8 6:49 7:07 6:51 6:37 6:24 6:12 5:02 5:52 5:43 5:35 5:27 5:20 8.9 6:44 7:02 6:46 6:32 6:20 6:09 5:58 5:49 5:40 5:32 5:24 5:17 9 6:40 6:57 6:42 6:28 6:16 6:05 5:55 5:45 5:37 5:29 5:21 5:14 9.1 6:36 6:52 6:38 6:24 6:12 6:01 5:51 5:42 5:34 5:26 5:18 5:11 9.2 6:31 6:48 6:34 6:20 6:09 5:58 5:48 5:39 5:31 5:23 5:16 5:09 9.3 6:27 6:44 6:29 6:17 6:05 5:55 5:45 5:36 5:28 5:20 5:13 5:06 9.4 6:23 6:39 6:25 6:13 6:02 5:51 5:42 5:33 5:25 5:17 5:10 5:04 9.5 6:19 6:35 6:22 6:09 5:58 5:48 5:39 5:30 5:22 5:14 5:08 5:01 9.6 6:15 6:31 6:18 6:06 5:55 5:45 5:35 5:27 5:19 5:12 5:05 4:59 9.7 6:11 6:27 6:14 6:02 5:51 5:42 5:32 5:24 5:16 5:09 5:02 4:56 9.8 6:07 6:23 6:10 5:59 5:48 5:38 5:30 5:21 5:14 5:07 5:00 4:54 9.9 6:04 6:19 6:07 5:55 5:45 5:35 5:27 5:19 5:11 5:04 4:58 4:51 10 6:00 6:15 6:03 5:52 5:42 5:32 5:24 5:16 5:08 5:02 4:55 4:49 10.1 5:56 6:12 6:00 5:49 5:39 5:29 5:21 5:13 5:06 4:59 4:53 4:47 10.2 5:53 6:08 5:56 5:45 5:36 5:27 5:18 5:11 5:03 4:57 4:50 4:45 10.3 5:50 6:04 5:53 5:42 5:33 5:24 5:16 5:08 5:01 4:54 4:48 4:42 10.4 5:46 6:01 5:50 5:39 5:30 5:21 5:13 5:05 4:58 4:52 4:46 4:40 10.5 5:43 5:57 5:46 5:36 5:27 5:18 5:10 5:03 4:56 4:50 4:44 4:38 10.6 5:40 5:54 5:43 5:33 5:24 5:15 5:08 5:00 4:54 4:47 4:41 4:36 10.7 5:36 5:51 5:40 5:30 5:21 5:13 5:05 4:58 4:51 4:45 4:39 4:34 10.8 5:33 5:48 5:37 5:27 5:18 5:10 5:03 4:56 4:49 4:43 4:37 4:32 10.9 5:30 5:44 5:34 5:24 5:16 5:08 5:00 4:53 4:47 4:41 4:35 4:30 11 5:27 5:41 5:31 5:22 5:13 5:05 4:58 4:51 4:45 4:39 4:33 4:28 11.2 5:21 5:35 5:25 5:16 5:08 5:00 4:53 4:46 4:40 4:34 4:29 4:24 11.4 5:16 5:29 5:20 5:11 5:03 4:55 4:49 4:42 4:36 4:30 4:25 4:20 11.6 5:10 5:24 5:14 5:06 4:58 4:51 4:44 4:38 4:32 4:27 4:21 4:17 11.8 5:05 5:18 5:09 5:01 4:53 4:46 4:40 4:34 4:28 4:23 4:18 4:13 12 5:00 5:13 5:04 5:56 4:49 4:42 4:36 4:30 4:24 4:19 4:14 4:10
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [MTL_QC] [ In reply to ]
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That does not look so good??

Excel file I can forward to an email address if interested, it is a chart that equates treadmill running at various speeds and inclines to "normal" outdoor flat speeds.

CM
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [MTL_QC] [ In reply to ]
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this looks interesting... pls email it to me at: joey2mak@msn.com. this past winter, i've been doing most of my intervals on a treadmill. i find that it has helped me run at a higher cadence.

Rgds,

Joey2makSmile
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [MTL_QC] [ In reply to ]
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Hey MTL_QC

That looks like a very interesting spread sheet - would appreciate a copy to calshaun@hotmail.com



Thanks

http://www.endurancesports.ca
Coaching and Training Camps

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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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I've always run at least 1% incline on treadmills...it seems to better imitate the times I run on the road.

Here's a neat trick to do on a treadmill to convince yourself to shorten your stride(if you haven't already been working on this)...as you are running on the treadmill, begin to get closer to the front bar, then shorten your stride...you'll find you really have to be careful not to hit the bar hard because it results in a noticeable increase in speed.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [yaquicarbo] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the info - just what I was looking for....

Gordo.
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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One degree is said to represent running through the air . I guess someone calculated the resistance and tried to simulate it by raising the treadmill.
I have been on a treadmill for a season and ran outside another. I had much better running fitness the year I trained outside the previous winter.
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Re: Treadmill vs. 'real' running questions: [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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In general I loath the indoor workout - treadmills included. However, as fate would have it I was forced inside this past Saturday as the conditions for running outside in Toronto were next to impossible due to glare ice just about everywhere. I ran on the traedmill for the first time in many years. It felt odd at first as I played around with the pace and the %incline. As another posted 1% incline seemed to be closer to the effort on the road. When the treadmill was flat I felt like I was running downhill at a given pace - too easy.

While running I figured that the treadmills may have a place for those who have no real concept of pace and that they could be great for tempo efforts - just dial in the pace you want and hang on for as long as you can. Hey, if it works for the Kenyans . .

As for outside vs. treadmill. I would still go with outdoor training. I have lived in places that get real winter for much of my life. I have always taken the attitude that you get out and do what you can when you can. It's a rare winter to miss huge chunks of training due to weather. When you can't run rest. When you can run, run hard. Hey, if it works for the Kenyans . . .


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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