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Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry?
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When it was 'politically expedient' John Kerry criminalized and demonized his fellow Vietnam Veterans, calling them rapists, killers, torturers and worse. John Kerry more than any other individual 'legitimized and nationalized' the image of Vietnam Vets as crazy, dope smoking, psychopaths.

Now when it is again 'politically expedient' he wants to present himself as one of the victims of his OWN creation.

The TRUTH is that John Kerry was during the Seventies, and IS today, an opportunist, who will do and say anything to further his personal political career. His entire life has been an orchestrated creation, he has done nothing without first assessing it's usefulness in terms of how it would affect his future career. "Political Theater" at it's finest.

Kerry's entire military service was a "re-creation" of the "dramatized" World War II Military Career of John F. Kennedy, down to volunteering to serve on P.T. boats and embellishing his exploits and documenting them with a movie camera. His record and medals he figured would propell him to the center of the political stage.

HOWEVER, when he came home from the War, John Kerry discovered that the American people were not interested in hearing about the heroic exploits of the Vietnam soldier, so he quickly turned that deficit into another opportunity, and became a LEADER in the 'anti-war' movement.

As a dominant tactic in it's battle against war, '70's antiwar activists had begun to successfully demonize Vietnam Veterans by accusing them of 'war crimes' and 'attrocities' against the Vietnamese people. Several of these 'anti-war' groups had called upon Congress to hold hearings into such abuses, when Congress was reluctant to do so, the activits led by John Kerry and Jane Fonda decided to stage their own hearings or "tribunals" to investigate American war crimes.

These 'tribunals' were again dramatized 'Political Theater' featuring a rag-tag army of 'alleged' former Vietnam Vets testifying to participating in events that made the NAZI stormtroopers of World War II look mild in comparison.

Opportunist John Kerry was not only one of the organizers of these 'tribunals', he became one of the 'Star Performers' in the drama that would begin his political career.

Without bothering to check the credentials or facts presented by those 'testifying' at these 'tribunal's, Kerry used the information gathered from these 'investigations' in his own testimony about 'War Crimes' before the U.S. Senate.

In fact, these 'tribunals' were packed with pretenders and liars, the greatest of which was John Kerry himself, a man who like 'many' of the so-called 'veterans' who testified about the Vietnam War,..... lied and embellished his own exploits. In the process, he made every other Vietnam Vet look guility as well:

On January 31, 1971, an anti-war group called Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) led by John Kerry convened what came to be known as the Winter Soldier Investigation. Some of the major organizers included Jane Fonda, Dick Gregory, Phil Ochs, Graham Nash, David Crosby, and actor Donald Sutherland. For four days in a hotel in Detroit, "veteran" after veteran told grisly tales of horror during their tours in Vietnam -- of using prisoners for target practice and throwing them out of helicopters, of cutting off the ears of dead VC, of burning villages and gang-raping women.

Lawyer and activist Mark Lane was also one of the organizers of Winter Soldier. In 1970, Lane had published a book called Conversations With Americans, in which Vietnam veterans told their stories of committing atrocities and witnessing endless war crimes committed by their fellow soldiers. Many of these tales were obviously absurd. As James Reston Jr. pointed out in a review of the book, Lane quoted one man's contention that a female Communist sympathizer was interrogated, tortured, and then raped by every soldier in his battalion. "Lane does not explain that in Vietnam an American battalion runs anywhere from one thousand to twelve hundred men," Reston said.

Lane's book was blasted by writer and war correspondent Neil Sheehan in The New York Times Book Review as a hack job. Sheehan repeatedly showed that many of Lane's so-called "eye witnesses" to war crimes had never served in Vietnam or had not served in the capacity they claimed.

Veteran Chuck Onan, for example, claimed he had attended parachute, frogman, and jungle survival schools and had received special training in torture techniques, such as stripping women prisoners, spreading their legs, and driving pointed sticks into their vaginas. "They told us we could rape the girls all we wanted," he said. Onan became a member of an LRRP (Long Range Recon Patrol) unit but deserted before he was sent to Vietnam, fleeing to Sweden so he did not have to kill. "They just went too far," Onan said.

But Sheehan pointed out that, contrary to his fanciful claims, Onan's military record said he had attended Aviation Mechanical Fundamental school in Memphis, not frogman, parachute, and jungle survival school. Onan had not belonged to an Army LRRP unit; he worked as a stock room clerk at a Marine base in Beaufort, S.C. The torture school was also a product of his vivid imagination. The Marines did not give courses in tormenting prisoners. Onan deserted after receiving orders to go to Vietnam, where his lackluster record indicates that, even if he had gone, he would have been assigned to work as a mechanic or to a mundane administrative job.

Another "Winter Soldier" named Michael Schneider testified that he had shot three peasants in cold blood, had been told by a sadistic lieutenant to attach wires from a field telephone to a mans testicles, and was ordered by his battalion commander to kill prisoners. After a year and a half as an infantry squad leader, then platoon leader with the 101st Airborne Division and the I96th Light Infantry Brigade, Schneider couldn't take the trauma of war any longer. Although he had been awarded the Bronze Star Medal, the Purple Heart, and the Silver Star, Schneider deserted and fled to Europe.

Schneider also told Lane a fascinating story about his family, claiming that his father replaced George Patton as the commander of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment in Vietnam. "He was a captain in World War II," Schneider said. "In the Nazi army."

Lane took this at face value. "Your father is a colonel in Vietnam?" he asked.

"Full colonel. Commanding officer in 11th Cavalry Regiment now," Schneider said, contending that his father changed his name after the war from Dieter von Kronenberger and switched loyalties to the American military.

Lane's point was clear: Nazis are running large American units in Vietnam. Vietnam soldiers are just like the Nazis. But Sheehan pointed out that at the time there was no Colonel Schneider or Von Kronenberger in the U.S. Army, and no one by that name ever commanded the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment. Schneider's stories about his father were bogus, as were those about his own service: Schneider deserted from Europe, not Vietnam. After surrendering to Army authorities in New York, he deserted again and was arrested on an Oklahoma murder charge. His last recorded residence: The maximum security ward of Eastern State Mental Hospital in Vinita, Oklahoma. Hardly a credible witness.

Sheehan also shed some light on another story told in Lane's book by Terry Whitmore, a black Marine who had deserted to Sweden. Whitmore claimed that he took part in a planned atrocity -- the extermination of an entire village of several hundred people, much like the My Lai massacre.

Whitmore had been in Vietnam during the time that he claimed the war crimes took place. But his battalion was operating in an unpopulated area near the DMZ. And both his former battalion commander, still on active duty, and a former platoon leader in his company, who had left the military to work as a teaching assistant at a university, said that no such massacre took place. These two men told Sheehan of an earlier incident involving Whitmore's company. The company commander, a captain, and an enlisted man had been involved in an action in which four Vietnamese -- two women, a man, and a child -- had been shot to death. The action happened at night in a hostile area. The two American soldiers were court-martialed on murder charges but acquitted. The company had been fired on; it had been impossible in the dark to distinguish friendlies from the enemy. Sheehan speculated that Whitmore had taken that story and inflated the numbers. Although a terrible incident, it was far from the planned massacre of hundreds of civilians.

According to Sheehan, another man in Lane's book, Garry Gianninoto, who claimed that as a Navy medical corpsman he had wimessed numerous atrocities, had actually been assigned to an aid station at a battalion headquarters, well out of the combat zone. He had been court-martialed for refusing orders to work in areas where he might have been shot. In the brig, he signed a statement admitting that he "had committed a homosexual act and had taken morphine," prompting the Navy to boot him out of Vietnam to a hospital for evaluation. (Otherwise, he would have had to finish his thirteen months in Viemam when he was released from the brig.) He went AWOL in New York and was given an undesirable discharge.

When asked by Sheehan about the many lies and misrepresentations in his book, Lane admitted he did not check military records. "It's not relevant," Lane said.

"This kind of reasoning," Sheehan wrote, "amounts to a new McCarthyism, this time from the left. Any accusation, any innuendo, any rumor, is repeated and published as truth." An editor at Simon & Schuster, asked by Sheehan whether they compared the soldiers' tales to their military records, "equated the idea of searching the military records with taking a radical medical theory to the American Medical Association. 'They'd just say it was wrong,' he said." The editor admitted to Sheehan that the book was published as an antiwar protest.

That same disrespect for the truth was in operation during the Winter Soldier hearings. After all the atrocities were dutifully taken down, the transcript was inserted into the Congressional Record by Sen. Mark O. Hatfield, who asked the commandant of the Marine Corps to investigate the many crimes, particularly those perpetrated by Marines.

The Naval Investigative service conducted a formal inquiry into the accusations levelled by Whitmore and others.

"The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service are interesting and revealing," said historian Guenter Lewy in his book America in Vietnam. His history of the war was one of the first to rely on previously classified documents in the National Archives. "Many of the veterans, although assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed, "on the record". . One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities."

One black Marine who testified at Winter Soldier did agree to talk with the investigators. Although he had claimed during the hearings that Vietnam was "one huge atrocity" and a "racist plot," he could provide no details of any actual crimes. Lewy said the question of atrocities had not occurred to the Marine until he left Vietnam. His testimony had been substantially "assisted" by a member of the Nation of Islam.

"But the most damaging finding consisted of the sworn statements of several veterans, corroborated by witnesses, that they had in fact not attended the hearing in Detroit," Lewy wrote. "One of them had never been to Detroit in his life." Fake "witnesses" had appropriated the names of real Vietnam veterans.

Lewy pointed out that incidents similar to those described at the Winter Soldier hearings did occur. "Yet these incidents either (as in the destruction of hamlets) did not violate the law of war or took place in breach of existing regulations," Lewy wrote. Those responsible were tried and punished.

"In either case, they were not, as alleged, part of a 'criminal policy,'" Lewy said. Despite the antiwar movement's contention that military policies protecting civilians in Vietnam were routinely ignored, Lewy said the rules of engagement were implemented and taken very seriously, although at times the rules were not communicated properly and the training was inadequate. That's what made the failures so notable.

"The VVAW's use of fake witnesses and the failure to cooperate with military authorities and to provide crucial details of the incidents further cast serious doubt on the professed desire to serve the causes of justice and humanity," Lewy wrote. "It is more likely that this inquiry, like others earlier and later, had primarily political motives and goals." (Although it has been thoroughly discredited, the Winter Soldier "investigation" is still being cited today as "proof" of American servicemen's barbarity. Writer Susan Brownmiller referenced it in Newsweek in a 1993 story on gang rape by soldiers.)

In April 1971, at John Kerry's direction the VVAW staged an anit-war demonstration in Washington, D.C. that it called Dewey Canyon III, a "limited incursion into the country of Congress." The protest was named after an operation in 1969 that sent elements of the 3rd Marine Division into Laos. About this same time, an ad appeared in The New York Times signed by forty-nine American servicemen from the 1st Air Cavalry Division urging support for antiwar demonstrations. But as United Press International later reported, the men, members of a Mekong Delta-based helicopter unit, had neither read nor paid for the ad.

Dewey Canyon III featured Vietnam veterans marching on Washington in a very dramatic, emotional way. Long-haired, scruffy, dressed in camouflage and the remnants of military garb, and draped in medals, they presented the image of men who had obviously been tested in battle and had seen the horrors of war, like bedraggled Southerners returning home from the battle of Gettysburg.

After being blocked from holding a ceremony honoring the war dead at Arlington National Cemetery, these "veterans" LED BY JOHN KERRY marched to the Capitol to present sixteen demands to Congress. At the end of the day; they held a candlelight march around the White House. After a man who said his son died in Vietnam blew taps, the "veterans" began flinging their war medals over a high wire fence in front of the Capitol: Purple Hearts, Bronze Star Medals, Silver Stars -- bits of ribbon and metal hurled in the face of the government that had so betrayed them. Some, after throwing away what had cost them so dearly, broke down and cried.

One of them was John Kerry, Vietnam Navy veteran and aspiring politician who had been among those who organized the protest. Kerry flung a handful of medals -- he had received the Silver Star, a Bronze Star Medal, and three Purple Hearts -- over the fence. Kerry spoke later that week before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, putting a face on the antiwar movement far different from the one seen before -- the scruffy hippie or wild-eyed activist. Kerry represented the All-American boy, mentally twisted by being asked to do terrible things, then abandoned by his government.

From start to finish, the public took Dewey Canyon III at face value, not understanding that they were watching brilliant political theater. Kerry, a Kennedy protege with white-hot political aspirations, ascended center stage as both a war hero and as an antiwar hero throwing away his combat decorations. His speech, apparently off the cuff, was eloquent, impassioned.

But years later, after his election to the Senate, Kerry's medals turned up on the wall of his Capitol Hill office. When a reporter noticed them, Kerry admitted that the medals he had thrown that day were not his. And Kerry's emotional, from-the-heart speech had been carefully crafted by a speechwriter for Robert Kennedy named Adam Walinsky, who also tutored him on how to present it. TV reporters totally ignored another Vietnam veteran, Melville L. Stephens, a former aide to Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, chief of Naval Operations, who that same day urged the Senate not to abandon America's allies in South Vietnam. "Peace for us must not come at the cost of their lives," Stephens said in a speech he wrote himself.

Kerry did not return from Vietnam a radical antiwar activist. Friends said that when Kerry first began talking about running for office, he was not visibly agitated about the Vietnam War. "I thought of him as a rather normal vet," a friend said to a reporter, "glad to be out but not terribly uptight about the war." Another acquaintance who talked to Kerry about his political ambitions called him "a very charismatic fellow looking for a good issue."

How many of the other participants in Dewey Canyon threw away "props"? How many were really Vietnam veterans? Well, let's take one example: Al Hubbard, the VVAW's executive secretary and one of the organizers of Winter Soldier. He wrote a poem that appeared at the beginning of The Winter Soldier Investigation, a book of testimonies from the hearings:

"This book is dedicated to you,

America
Now,
Before the napalm-scorched earth
consumes the blood of would-be-fathers
and
have-been-sons
of
daughters spread-eagled
and
mothers on the run.
Reflect.
See what you've become,
Amerika."

A scathing commentary by one of those who could no longer stomach the fight, right? Wrong. Hubbard first claimed he was a decorated Air Force captain who had caught shrapnel in his spine flying a transport plane into Da Nang in 1966. But after NBC received a tip that Hubbard was lying about his rank, a reporter confronted him. He confessed on the evening news and the Today Show that he actually served as a sergeant, not a pilot or captain, in Vietnam.

John Kerry defended Hubbard, citing the confession as proof of Hubbard's integrity. "Al owned up to the rank question," Kerry said. "He thought it was time to tell the truth, and he did it because he thought it would be best for the organization."

William Overend, a CBS reporter sympathetic to the antiwar movement, later pointed out that Hubbard only confessed when he was confronted. Then the Defense Department issued a news release. "Alfred H. Hubbard entered the Air Force in October 1952, reenlisted twice and was honorably discharged in October 1966, when his enlistment expired," the statement said. "At the time of his discharge he was an instructor flight engineer on C-123 aircraft with the 7th Air Transport Squadron, McChord Air Force Base, Tacoma, Washington. There is *no record of any service in Vietnam* [emphasis in the original], but since he was an air crew member he could have been in Vietnam for brief periods during cargo loading, unloading operations, or for crew rest purposes. His highest grade held was staff sergeant E-5."

The announcement that Hubbard had no record of service in Vietnam jolted Overend, who had been impressed by Hubbard's leadership qualities. He began looking into Hubbard's background independently. Hubbard claimed he had been severely wounded. Overend called the VA, which confirmed that Hubbard had a sizable medical record and had a service-connected disability rating of 60 percent. At the time, he was receiving disability compensation of $163 a month. But the VA refused to say how, where, or when Hubbard was injured. Overend checked Hubbard's medals and decorations: Hubbard had no Purple Heart or Vietnam Service Ribbon, which can rightfully be claimed by any member of an air crew serving in Vietnam, no matter how briefly.

Hubbard refused to discuss his record. Overend finally discovered that Hubbard had suffered a rib injury during a basketball game in 1956, and a back injury in 1961 during a soccer game. Hubbard had not been wounded, nor had he ever served, in Vietnam. But the story was too long for television, and when Overend tried to sell the piece to a liberal publication, no one would touch it. The truth might hurt the antiwar effort. Overend finally published the story in July 1971 in the National Review.

Other major VVAW leaders, like Michael Harbert, also had problems with their credibility. Harbert claimed he was an ex-sergeant who had flown forty-seven missions over Vietnam during 1967 and 1968. "I had fantasies that they were going to take me prisoner because I was in the Air Force and flew in bombing missions over the North," he said after returning to Hanoi in the 1980s. "Suddenly I was back on my last combat mission after the Long Binh Bridge, over the Red River. I closed my eyes, and I was right back in the AWACS, directing an air strike...and the MiGs are in the air, and the surface-to-air missiles are after us." Hearing the explosions brought that fear back.

But Harbert's record showed that he was a member of the 964th Airborne Early Warning and Control Squadron, based at McClellan Air Force Base in California throughout the Vietnam War. The 964th flew EC-121D aircraft on what were known as "College Eye" missions -- well out of danger zones, usually along the coast of Siberia or China and not in range of MiG attacks and surface-to-air missiles. Harbert's awards and decorations include the Air Medal with one oak leaf cluster but no Vietnam Service Medal. His only overseas service was in Taiwan from November 28, 1967, to April 9, 1968.

SOURCE: "Stolen Valor", B. G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley, Verity Press, 1998, Chapter 6, Atrocities: The Good War Versus the Bad War, pgs. 130 - 137.


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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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Phew - thanks Elwood. No more having to ponder what the most pointless waste of Dan's bandwidth is. You really are a whizz with those cut and paste commands, aren't you? Hats off to you for mastering them.

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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [goobie] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, that was about three pages of stuff I'm not going to read. It might have all been perfectly valid and true, or total crap, but I'm not going through all that on an online forum.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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"Yeah, that was about three pages of stuff I'm not going to read."

You have every right to cover your ears, scream "la la la la la la la la...." to cover what you don't wish to hear, and remain uninformed.

Just don't say I didn't offer.

After all, you can probably read 250 WPM, even if you didn't finish high school. The post contained 3500 words. So with all the time you waste here, you can't give up 14 minutes? LOL

And you just spent two opening this post!


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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [goobie] [ In reply to ]
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"Phew - thanks Elwood. No more having to ponder what the most pointless waste of Dan's bandwidth is. You really are a whizz with those cut and paste commands, aren't you? Hats off to you for mastering them."

Well, when you learn to read, you can tell me why the left's claims that SBVT isn't a credible group, but Kerry's buddies are worth listening to. There was a lot of info in that post, care to try comment on any of it?


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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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I wasn't trying to put down your post, but if you feel like you have to remain on the defensive 100% of the time, that's fine. Also, the day I decide to get "informed" in politics from a post on a triathlon forum is the day I give up my day job with the US Navy. I just don't like to read and scroll for three pages on a computer screen.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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"Also, the day I decide to get "informed" in politics from a post on a triathlon forum is the day I give up my day job with the US Navy."

Info was from a book.

So where do you get your info? I caved in and watched Farenhate 911, just so these jokers here couldn't tell me I didn't know what I was talking about in dissin' the movie. That took well over an hour. You can't take 14 minutes to read a book exerpt? BTW, you've now wasted that much responding to why you wouldn't read it!!

Sorry, Irony is my favorite pastime...


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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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Because he's a shit talking hippy freak.


**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**
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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [mojozenmaster] [ In reply to ]
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"Because he's a shit talking hippy freak.
"

Who would that be?

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Hey, wait a minute... [mojozenmaster] [ In reply to ]
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I'M a shit talking hippie freak. Lived near the corner of Broderick and Haight in the late '60s...

So SMILE when you say that, hombré...

:o)/


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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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How many days was W in Viet Nam?

I think that Kerry got privileges because he was a rich kid, but a bullet doesn't know that. W didn't go for one stinkin' day.

I just wish we could focus on the real issues...stagnant economy, health care, the environment, bin Laden, education. Those are my hot buttons, not Viet Nam.

I want real issues dicussed and between the 2 parties and the media, it is not happening.

And to think, I once believed in Bush and his compasionate conservatism....

_______________________

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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [tricheermom] [ In reply to ]
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"I just wish we could focus on the real issues...stagnant economy, health care, the environment, bin Laden, education."
- - What stagnant economy? Enquiring readers of the Wall Street Journal want to know. The US has the best Healthcare system in the world. bin Laden has had his organization demolished and about two-thirds of his leadership is dead or behind bars. Education is specifically a STATE issue, and the federal government should keep out of it.

"Those are my hot buttons, not Viet Nam."
- - Oddly, Kerry only seems to want to discuss the latter.

"I want real issues dicussed and between the 2 parties and the media, it is not happening."
- - A sure sign that neither side has much to offer. Just for the pleasure, join me in showing dissatisfaction by voting for someone OTHER than the two major parties

"And to think, I once believed in Bush and his compasionate conservatism...."
- - Slogans are meant for suckers... no offense.


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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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""Those are my hot buttons, not Viet Nam."
- - Oddly, Kerry only seems to want to discuss the latter."

I know he brought it up at the convention, but most times I've seen him interviewed, he brings up overtaxed middle class, Americans losing their health insurance, the war in Iraq, etc... Just because Vietnam is all the media wants to ask him about, doesn't mean it's all he wants to talk about.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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"I know he brought it up at the convention, but most times I've seen him interviewed, he brings up overtaxed middle class, Americans losing their health insurance, the war in Iraq, etc... Just because Vietnam is all the media wants to ask him about, doesn't mean it's all he wants to talk about."

So when is he going to start talking about his substantive plans to fix things?

BTW, I hope he doesn't "fix" the tax thing. I'm not looking forward to paying more. Everyone is overtaxed, but proportionately, the wealthiest Americans are carrying the lions share, BY FAR.

Americans losing their health insurance? No one I know has that problem. If he's talking about the unemployed, then he's pushing socialism. I'd vote against that, which means not for Bush either.

Kerry wanted to talk about pulling troops out of N Korea, until Bush brought it up, then he turned against the idea. Kerry said we shouldn't be in Iraq, but then said we should. He said he'd pull us out if elected, then he said he wouldn't. What does he want to talk about, re: Iraq?

Maybe if Kerry took a hard stand and layed out his agenda for the country, maybe we could talk about that, instead of ancient history. I'm ready...


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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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You can't admit when you're wrong can you? I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with Sen. Kerry's policy ideas. I disagree with several of them myself. However, I don't tell people that all he wants to talk about is Vietnam, when it's obvious that that is all the media wants to talk about. The SVBT has done a skillful job at making this the issue that is in the media all the time. They've even convinced you to believe that service is all Sen Kerry wants to talk about.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Why do Viet Nam vets hate Kerry? [tricheermom] [ In reply to ]
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>How many days was W in Viet Nam?

OK, you can change the subject and I'll answer your question: zero.

Now back to the subject: Kerry is making Vietnam a big issue. He spent a lot of time on it in his acceptance speech. So - fair game for people wanting to be informed to examine the record. Read up above....the record before you.

I like to know who my candidate is. There's too much fishy about Kerry's integrity and motives, not just now, but his whole adult life.

Blind ideolgists will turn away from things that make "the guy they have to vote for because he's in the right party" look bad. And those people get what they vote for in most cases.
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