I saw your post on the riding with SO's thread and was thinking of how much I agreed with you! I do nearly all of my riding with guys or solo, so it's really hard not to get totally down on myself. Now, I'm not that speedy, even when I ride with other womens but at least I can keep them in sight! :-)

I'm working really hard on the mental aspect this year, so I'm trying to stop all of the negative self-talk that plagued me last year and stop calling myself slow, etc. The times that it's been hardest for me to do this is when I'm riding with the guys, more so than when I'm running (I still swim faster than my hubby, so at least I've got that going for me!) I've been trying to just focus on looking at it as an aspect of my workout, i.e. I need to learn to race my own pace, etc. But it still just plain sucks sometimes!

M

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The beatings will continue until morale improves

I have for many years trained almost exclusively with men. In general, I find that they are mostly faster than me, with a few exceptions. On the occasions that I have trained/ridden with women, the women I ride with tend to be a little slower than me.

As long as the men aren't LOTS faster, I really like training with them. They push me a little harder than I would push myself. If I feel like I'm dragging them down, I do get uncomfortable about riding with them. I do not feel slighted or disadvantaged or any of that stuff.

That being said, I like riding with anybody, because riding long distances alone just sucks!!!!!

No, it doesn't bother me. Because I know I'm better than them at many things. We all have our strengths.

It bothers me more if my girlfriends kick my ass in a workout or race, than if a man does.

The only time it frustrates me is when a triathlon has wave starts but the waves are too close together and I have to swim through all the slow male swimmers. On the other hand, I've been at the front of a coed pack before with one guy who was doing his best to literally kick the crap out of me and the look on his face was priceless when we were getting out of the water and he realized he's just been beaten out of the water by a girl.

Granted then i get my a$$ kicked on the bike but such is life, right?

Really, I couldn't care less and find that training with my husband makes me push myself harder then I typically do when training with my girlfriends.

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My wife is faster than me in swimming and running.

Doesn't bother me a bit since I can always beat her where it really matters - on the bike.:-)

But she actually gets quite angry that she can't hang at the front when she comes out on the group rides. I tell her not to worry about it because it's just a testosterone roadie hammerfest on Tuesday and Thursday nights. She's OK with the longer Sunday rides though because the group makes more of an effort to stay together.

Nah, it doesn't really bother me. There are so many physiological reasons for this, it's not like you're wimping out if you don't keep up with your SO on any given day.

This morning, on the other hand, I had my butt handed to me by not only a woman, but a recent post partum woman, AND......yes it's true, a pregnant woman. gah! What can i say. I know fast women.

(Ironically, the five of us sailed easily past a tri team that was out training, all of them guys. )

Bottom line is if I kept score of everyone who was faster than me and why, it would make me nuts. In the immortal words of Doug Stern, "Set up your own game.....you'll always win". :-)

Not really. I mean, they have a penis, too...and while I would argue that their plumbing is much easier to deal with than ours, I know there's not much I can do about it.

I train to the best of my ability, and if that means I'm riding and racing against guys, than so it is. (And more often than not, that's u sually who it is) If it happens that there are women doing the same thing at the same level or faster, then sure, I'd train with them.

There's always someone faster, stronger, better looking, smarter... and there will (for the most part) be differences between the genders. Doesn't really ruffle my feathers. I can live with dudes being inherently faster (although I like to beat them whenever possible ;-). I do dislike chicks out-riding me, however. ;-)

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Yep, it's definitely frustrating. Million of years of evolution have made them faster and stronger. My evolutionary biologist friend says that males are supposed to be flashy and fast while females large and fecund. LARGE and FECUND--that's attractive if your species is dying out!
While it may be frustrating have the guys outride/outrun/outswim me, I've witness frustration on a grand scale by some guys who've been "chicked" at the races.

one guy who was doing his best to literally kick the crap out of me and the look on his face was priceless when we were getting out of the water

Your post reminded me of a sprint tri (Indiana Downs Sprint series...anyone ever done it?) I did a few years back. A womens friend of mind was just geting back in to tris and this was her first race. She was a fast swimmer, having swam for a Div I college team and still owns a few school records. Anyways, I finish the 1/2 mile swim and am geting out of the water when I look over and she is also getting out right behind me. I'm pumped!!!!.... and make some comment to her about beating her out of the water.....until I realize she was in the wave 5 minutes behind me. LOL

It doesn't bother me in general, but I admit it bothers me with my husband specifically. I have really come around in the past few months, but it took some work. When he first started running he was as fast as me without any effort, and once he started training he left me in the dust. It was a blow to my ego since it has taken me 3 + years of running to build up to where he started. I have been the "runner" in the family so I felt he was kind of stealing my thunder. I know it's unfair and immature so I keep my feelings to myself- I'd hate to discourage him just because of my fragile ego. When I think about it, I really should appreciate having someone to train with and to push me! But it's true that my first emotion is jealousy. Ugh.

However, it doesn't bother me that he can out-swim and out-bike me (by a large margin). I guess because running was "my thing" .. so he can have those other two! I've also claimed marathon as "mine" which was easy since he has no interest.

My ultimate goal is to get over myself completely and enjoy training and racing together. In fact, I'd love to run a marathon with him someday. :)

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Training for: Barb's Race HIM 8.2.08

My husband and I used to train together a lot when we first started dating. He works so much now that he doesn't have as much time. He is a very natural runner. Last spring he started running from nothing to 10-15 miles a week and did a 5k with me a couple months later and did a 17:20 while I've been training consistantly and only did a 19:26. It bothers me a little when we run together because sometimes he runs 10 feet ahead of me the whole time!

When he was training for triathlon he could beat me in swimming and biking by a little most of the time, but not by as much as he does with running. The last few years he has done some triathlons without training much and I have been able to beat him. We actually won a Husband-Wife division and we were the only couple where the wife was faster. It doesn't really feel that great to beat him when it is not on a fair playing field, though. Hopefully he will have time to start training hard again and I can beat him for real since I am so much faster than I was a few years ago.

I am faster than most men that I know. Most of the guys that I swim with ask me for advice about training, gear, etc. I do hate in races when guys think that they should be faster than me and are very obnoxious when I try to pass them. That is frustrating.

Gender aside, some people are just naturally faster than others. I'm not bothered by it. I know that I've worked hard to be where I am, both in my personal life, my career and in my athletic pursuits. I sometimes get frustrated when I'm beaten by someone who is either less experienced or who hasn't trained as hard but I try to get rid of that feeling by looking my acheivements independantly of what others have done.

It is just a fact of life so why worry about that. I worry about what I can change, through training to the best of my ability.
But what has bothered me lately is a few runners I know (male) made comments to me about how it was 'easier' for me to qualify for Boston (just did for the first time last year!) as its 'easier' for women as the standards are half an hour slower for women. I believe the numbers are like this because of women's average VO2 max? Anyway, I wish I could come up with a good comeback for those comments. I just kinda shrug and don't know what to say.

I think it's discouraging that often the top women never get to "break the tape" and actually come across a finish line first. Of course that's often the case because of wave starts anyway, but I just think it's too bad that the best women rarely get that feeling of really being out in front.

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Suffering on the the bike is always more fun than suffering on the run.

I get frustrated by the fact that men sometimes seem to think they will naturally be faster. I'm not sure that the gap isn't closing overall, anyway. Women beat men at ultra events, etc. I think some of the marathon times and things like that are moving closer. So I'm not convinced women can't be about as fast as men (at least certain women). Maybe it has more to do with men getting more motor control training as kids with gender roles, etc.

I must admit, though, that I enjoy the look on a guy's face when I lap them in the pool, or pass them running, etc. Not that I'm super fast and that this happens all the time, by any means. And I do get irritated when a guy laps me, etc.

The gym is the worst, though (weightlifting). Guys will just stand in front of me or act like I'm not there in the free weight area. A lot of times they are the guys who aren't necessarily consistently training, so I'm lifting heavier weights than them, anyway! Although they tend to clear out fast when they notice that fact ;-)

Em

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True that women beat men at ultras sometimes! and I think it was 2 years ago that the women's winner at the JFK 50 miler was 50, or over 50. I mean, she was the first woman not in AG but overall! and beat a ton of guys! I think women can excell at the more 'thinking' type races like ultras and can deal better with the pain.

Yes, I think that women physiologically are actually better equipped for the longer distance races. So it's an area where women could begin to dominate and beat men. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the LA marathon and a triathlon (can't remember the name, but it's a big purse one) tried to "equal" out the field and gave men a slight handicap and women kicked ass. So much so that the triathlon, at least, ended up changing the whole "equaling out" times and all that.

This is an area I am super interested in and thought about studying at one point (considered phd in sociology of sport), but haven't ended up pursuing.

So anyway, I personally think women could end up being competitive or beating men in the longer distance races eventually.

Em

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no, it doesn't bother me. i'm at the point where i just appreciate being out there, enjoy being active and have other more important things to focus on (like my business, health, marriage, my life!). how i do on the bike or run doesn't determine how i feel about myself, or how i feel about my life. how i perform in a workout or in a race doesn't equate to my self worth. granted, there was a time when all of that did matter much more...it just really doesn't anymore.

i think i came to this before i got into tri; which might be the reason i was never terribly good at tri...it just hasn't been that important to me. i'm willing to a certain point, and that is it. being "willing" is relative, i've learned.

the truth is that i had a successful "career" in athletics prior to tri. in my early to mid 20's, i realized i wasn't going to row for the US Team, i wasn't going to win a marathon, or do anything terribly exceptional. so it was like accepting the law of diminishing returns. everything i was going to achieve...i already achieved it. everything that was exceptional, i had already done those things, and there were many inspiring achievements that i'm still proud of.

so, i don't feel the need to be frustrated or resentful over what someone else is doing in athletics. i believe when i'm thinking that way, this means i'm not focusing on what it is i should be doing in my life, and i consider that to be very unproductive.

the challenges/interests that capture my attention now are way beyond how fast i can run.

 It really bothered an ex-girlfriend of mine. She was a really fast cyclist, faster than the vast majority of men, but she didn't think it was fair that men were naturally faster. I guess she felt like the "ceiling" was a bit lower for her. Actually what really bothered her was the large discrepancy in natural strength - i.e., that it was so easy for a man to overpower a woman even when of equivalent size. I tend to agree with her.

"it was so easy for a man to overpower a woman "


Uh, I wouldn't be so sure of that jaylew.:-)

My husband is one of the top local athletes in our area. He often wins his age group in local races or at least places in the top 3. He runs extremely fast, an 18 min 5K - he's 46 by the way, and he averages about 25 mph on the bike in the HIMs' he competes in. People will sort of ask him questions and look to him to lead group rides and such. I, on the other hand, do not win my age group....ever! Unless of course I'm the only one who shows up that day, that has happened. Or the other ladies move up to Masters (I'm in the 50 = 54 age group, not a big one). Does it bother me? Yes actually oftentimes it does. I run about a ten minute mile on long runs, he runs about a 6:30 pace. I have to remind myself that if I have a good run, I felt great, was within my personal time goals, etc,. then I need to focus on that and congratulate myself and not feel 'stupid or slow' because he effortlessly goes so much faster than me. It is really hard. At least there is some solace in the fact that not many women can keep up with him, none really on the bike, a few can out run him but they are all ten years younger....which sort of leads to another reason why it is hard for me.

Of course he says he doesn't care about that, he doesn't love me because of how I run. Obviously. Still sometimes it's tough to hang with him and all his fast friends; I'm sorry but they might want to think they take my athletic endeavors seriously but they so do not! Okay maybe my husband does, he's very encouraging but the rest of them look at me like "who are you".....

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My wife ran in college and trains on the bike with my friends and I sometimes. She doesn't seem to be bothered by what the men can do. During a race she watches armpits, only hairy armpits are allowed to pass.

Lesson,

I just started reading a book by Gale Bernhardt. In it, she cites a study from Laval U in Quebec, in which similar people (twins even) were trained exactly the same way but had different levels of response to the training. They found some people who made huge improvements in aerobic capacity and strength, while others hardly showed any gain. (this is from p5 of Training Plans for Multisport Athletes, btw).

Anyway -- I can't speak for you except that you've express frustration within your subset, and I empathize. I learned a long time ago I am not in the category of "high responders". Not totally low, either, but I have to work like a dog for every little increment of improvement. I've made peace with that. (Plus, the older I get, the less likely it becomes, that one of my peers is going to take up my sport on a whim and proceed to serve me. haha)

I'm not always this zen and philosophical, but in this case I believe the negative (slow response to training) becomes a positive, as it has forced me to learn to be spot-on with nutrition, gear, race prep, etc. In turn I am a more confident athlete because I know all of my performances are rock solid, repeatable, and not a fluke or lucky break.

JMO :-)

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