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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [mckenzie] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, it is possible to continually overtake each other, within the 7x3m and 15s rules. However, it is fairly unlikely (unless you agreed beforehand) as two such people are probably competing against each other directly.
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Here are the results of the top 20 in the M35-39. Column 5 is what Ken is using. Take for example Marty Gaal, he and Jeff Kammerzelt entered T2 1 second apart, but Marty started the bike about 3 1/2 minutes ahead of Jeff based on swim and T1 times. Does that mean Jeff caught him immediately and drafted the whole way? Caught him halfway and drafted the rest of the way? If he was fast enough to make up 3 minutes on Marty that quick, why slow down to draft off him? Did he have Marty in particular in his sights? Now, the case of Scott Wollard and Marc Kase, who exited the water 8 seconds apart, exited T1 19 seconds apart, and entered T2 2 seconds apart. They seemed to be around one another all day, but does that mean that they worked together all day? I don't know, they finished the race 36 seconds apart, maybe they are just similarly talented athletes, one from NY and one from CA.

I think you have to look at when they exited T1 and not just combined time entering T2.

1 22 DAVID FORSEE 4:09:46.30 25:58 2:40 2:21:19 2:49:56 36 2:11 1 1:17:41 5:56
2 29 VINNIE MONSEAU 4:13:38.65 28:25 2:47 2:18:55 2:50:06 19 2:00 3 1:21:34 6:14
3 30 MAX WUNDERLE 4:13:50.55 23:22 2:27 2:22:58 2:48:46 10 1:49 5 1:23:16 6:22
4 35 PATRICK DWYER 4:14:34.00 26:43 2:27 2:20:59 2:50:08 5 1:46 4 1:22:41 6:19
5 36 DWAYNE SMITH 4:14:42.25 28:48 2:42 2:22:16 2:53:45 15 1:56 2 1:19:03 6:03
6 40 ESPEN KATERAAS 4:16:52.10 27:58 2:04 2:17:51 2:47:52 28 2:08 7 1:26:54 6:38
7 43 MARTY GAAL 4:17:53.35 21:22 2:27 2:22:24 2:46:12 4 1:44 17 1:29:59 6:53
8 44 JEFF KAMMERZELT 4:18:25.20 24:48 2:21 2:19:03 2:46:11 24 2:04 19 1:30:12 6:54
9 46 SCOTT WOLLARD 4:18:30.50 29:01 2:16 2:17:42 2:48:58 6 1:47 9 1:27:46 6:42
10 49 MARC KASE 4:19:06.50 28:53 2:45 2:17:23 2:49:00 85 2:45 8 1:27:23 6:41
11 56 LON BREITENBACH 4:20:44.75 23:12 2:28 2:22:45 2:48:25 18 1:59 20 1:30:22 6:54
12 64 STEVE KIMBALL 4:23:34.70 28:55 2:36 2:20:38 2:52:08 2 1:40 16 1:29:48 6:52
13 68 TED WAUGH 4:24:17.25 29:03 2:34 2:22:28 2:54:05 11 1:49 12 1:28:24 6:45
14 69 DOUGLAS LIMING 4:24:20.10 25:57 2:35 2:20:23 2:48:54 22 2:03 31 1:33:25 7:08
15 70 KEVIN OWENS 4:24:22.70 25:16 2:39 2:21:14 2:49:08 7 1:48 32 1:33:29 7:09
16 75 MARTIN ROUILLARD 4:25:37.85 26:05 2:16 2:25:50 2:54:10 21 2:02 14 1:29:27 6:50
17 84 MURRAY RESINSKI 4:28:01.65 33:01 2:25 2:22:31 2:57:55 14 1:51 10 1:28:17 6:45
18 87 MARK FACCIANI 4:28:30.60 30:25 2:37 2:18:03 2:51:04 13 1:51 41 1:35:37 7:18
19 89 SEAN WARD 4:29:16.80 28:18 3:12 2:22:51 2:54:19 72 2:39 29 1:32:20 7:03
20 90 BRIAN MAIOLO 4:29:24.20 28:28 2:54 2:27:13 2:58:34 40 2:16 13 1:28:35 6:46
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I think you have to look at when they exited T1 and not just combined time entering T2.

Here's my "logic": if a bunch of racers enter T2 together or in near proximity, is it more likely that 1) at some point during the bike, they started riding together or 2) they happen to converge at the end of the bike? I'm going with 1). How far apart when they started only changes the point at which they converged.

I looked at similar splits at the world triathlon championships last year (Austria or Switzerland or something) for a particular US racer who is drop-dead fast on the bike. They had 4 or 5 lap splits. One could see this guy catching about a minute a lap on 2-4 guys, pretty consistently, catching them with a lap to go. Remarkably, they all got off the bike about the same time. Either the US guy slowed down, or the others matched his pace, or, well, you figure it out.

I suspect a similar dynamic at play at Eagleman.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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nice analysis there Ken, what's the solution for the future??
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Do you realize that you responded to a nearly 11 year old thread?
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [logella] [ In reply to ]
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logella wrote:
Do you realize that you responded to a nearly 11 year old thread?

That's the whole point
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [logella] [ In reply to ]
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Do you realize that you responded to a nearly 11 year old thread?//

How can you tell? And do it without looking at the date...(-;
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
nice analysis there Ken, what's the solution for the future??

You dug this up from 2007?

Massive penalties.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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pretty sure at 24mph 1 sec is legal, ie 11m
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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My life is finally complete
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Re: Drafting or coincidence? You decide [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
nice analysis there Ken, what's the solution for the future??

Swim, Run, Bike

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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