pretty much all elites run twice a day, ez in the morning which for some will be as slow as 8+ per mile and then a hard run in the evening.

Anywhere from 6-10 in the am to 15+ in the evening depend on time of year and what they are training for.

Alan Culpepper in the run up to Chicago was running 140 miles a week, Radcliffe 130.

If your body can handle it without breaking down I suspect that there are huge gains to be made from it, similar to a running camp but without building to it you can not sustain doubles for very long........

A more interesting development in elite running is what KK and Radcliffe were doing prior to their WR's which was 20-22 miles at faster than race pace, run till you puke literally in KK case.

I think that combined with doubles is one way to get fast........oh and triples work as well with a quick three miles at lunch :)

agree. that is a strategy for elite runners.
for elite triathletes, (again unless you race ITU and are already sub-30), you can't do that year round
and not more than twice a week in base period if you can't ride, and once otherwise.

however, indeed, to log 140mi, you'd better cut the runs sometimes...kenyans in training camps actually runs 3 times a day.

what I have been doing for the double runs was very conservative. started with 20' easy in dec. then 30'-40' maybe 45' in the morning and up to 1h10' in the evening. biggest week so far was 90mi (with 10mi swim and only 250mi bike) late dec. early jan.

I saw tremendous gains in running fitness (although can't say if it is volume related or double run related)

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what I have been doing for the double runs was very conservative. started with 20' easy in dec. then 30'-40' maybe 45' in the morning and up to 1h10' in the evening. biggest week so far was 90mi (with 10mi swim and only 250mi bike) late dec. early jan.
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may I ask what your race result was after a peak/mileage week like that?
This sounds horrifying to me, I have to admit.

Strength away from the legs?? Do you mean strength from you legs because of the extra abuse your legs are suffering (fatigue) .. or do your legs physiologically change in such a way as to benefit running vs cycling.

Currently I'm running about 20-25 miles a week spilt across 3 or 4 workouts.. making fantastic gains for 7 months.. cycling 150-200 miles. This can mostly be attributed to those rapid beginner gains. I should be pacing at about 6:30 for a 10k by end of season. When I started training I could maybe manage one 8 min mile.

mike

When I have done them consistently, the last time being 2 years ago, I saw huge gains in a matter of three weeks, the downside is the tiredness and the fact that you are really pushing, even if one is ez and the other a little brisker....

The weather has been crappy here so I have simply increased my mileage on singles and thats good, but no where near as beneficial as doubles.

no races (dec. jan. period). just logging some miles.
we have a beautiful weather year round so it's hard not to train.
and also working on running technique.

when you focus on running IF you do it for long enough you will certanly undergo some physical changes and adaptions to running.

HOWEVER it while small changes may occur rapidly, Elites will tell you that it takes years to get to the point where you can run 140 miles per week every single week, AC average this past year over the year before was 5 miles a week more..............and 5 the year before.......

It takes years to be able to sustain that kind of training.

usually a lot of running makes your legs quite tired (that's the case for me anyway). for example, it is much easier to do a long ride sat. and long run sunday, than the opposite.

also, one important details, is that in my area, it's quite hilly, and lots of miles, tires your legs. you really are losing some strengh (even though it is temporary...like 24h...)

It is somewhat of a standard for national and international level long distance runners to do two runs a day. I have heard that some Kenyans, at their training camps can do three run sessions in a day. Figure if a marathoner is dong 100+ miles/week it may break out like: 5 miles am/10 miles pm five or six days/week and then a 20 miler on the "other" day or numbers close to that.

I think that the break point is about 70 - 80 miles a week. If there is a need to do more miles, then you will need to look at doing two runs a day on some days. Typically it is a very easy run in the morning and then a higher quality run in the afternoon.

I had limited experience with them when I was much younger as I was rarely running that kind of volume. I never did it when I was tri training. I found that I could get by on much less overall run training because of all of the cycling and swimming and the back-ground in running. A BIG running week for me when I was tri training seriously was 45 - 50 miles tops.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

we talked quite a bit about this with a german friend that was home not long ago. he turned from tri to running for 3 years, and with the huge training base he had jumped into double runs regularly and a 120mi+ a week of running or more on a regular basis. 29'20'' 10km a 63' half and tons of injuries...

what I am not sure about right now is how the changes that I am seeing will convert to triathlon and specifically running off the bike.

50 miles that what I do right now because we had crappy weather here lately.
a week looks something like this:

3 easy 5-6miles over lunch with some people slower than me so I don't push it.
1 hard 5-6miles (AT or intervall or hill-reps)
1 harder 8-10miles (to get used to the target speed)
1 long not too hard 15-20miles (easy 10-15miles and end with 5miles IM pace)

but that's a top week!

If you could average 140 miles for 20 weeks then that would count but running one or two weeks of high volume and then realizing that your ITB is messed up or you have PF is not the way to do it.....

Its all about sustained consistency.....

I think were the application is, is that being able to run well in triathlon is all about running well when fatigued, not fresh. Double runs definately help with this if the first run is harder. But you have to be very careful about over doing it with the run.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I would take a hard look at the three easy runs of 5 - 6 miles. What are the accomplishing? Perhaps some good socializing with friends.

Otherwise the run program looks good. That's basically what I did.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I usually cope well with a lot of volume. and even enjoy it.

[reply]I would take a hard look at the three easy runs of 5 - 6 miles. What are the accomplishing? Perhaps some good socializing with friends.
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they allow me to get the miles in at days where the focus is more on biking. Lack of endurance is the usually the limiting factor for most of us, so a 5-6mile easy run is training your base without making you tired for the bike ride that comes in the evening and is the focus of that specific day.
But I do agree, they are the first to get over board when I need more time for training on the bike.

The other conclusion that I have come to about triathlon running and run fitness in general, is that you can't ever run too many hills in training. I would always seek out hilly routes to run regardless of the type of run that I was out on, long run, easy run, tempo, fartlek, . . whatever. Run in hilly terrain all the time and you will get better.

Of course this is no help if you happen to live where it is flat!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Are you reading my mind?

I used to only run on flats because I thought I had to optimize my training with the time I had. But I was wrong. If you want to run a marathon between 3 and 3:30 in an IM, you don't have to be very fast, just be able to hold the pace troughout the run after a strong bike ride. So you need to be strong and that's what the hills will do for you.
Also I changed my technique a little by running higher cadence and therefore moving more from heel to midfoot. But then the calfs start taking more and the hills will make those calfs strong.
So running a good marathon is one thing but running a good marathon off the bike is another and I belive those hills will help that.

well, it's good cause that's all we have in El Paso...can run along the Rio Grande but then you need to outrun the dogs too...

Trained for my first IM last year.

12 (low) to 16 (max) hours per week. Started training in November 2001.

I went 9:54 at IMC 2002.

Thought I'd end up putting in higher volumes (>20). Luckily I had a coach that reeled me in and gave me what I needed/could tolerate. I will likley aim for higher volumes as my body adapts, but I am convinced of quality over quantity.

Never did a double run, except to the bushes during a couple of long bricks. Thank god for big leaves. Never eat taco's before a long brick.

R.