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650c Wheels Obsolete??
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I had a conversation with a gentlemen this weekend who owns and operates a service oriented bike shop. He made the assertion that 650c wheels and steep seat angled bicycles were on the out. He claimed a lor of the the Euro bikes were beginning to get away from that sort of setup. Is this the general movement in the industry?
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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Does this bike shop sell 650 wheel bikes? If not, it sounds like a sales pitch. I ride, and know many others who ride, a 650 wheel tri-bike so I don't see them disappearing anytime soon.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a 650 wheel bike 3 years ago. Well just last week I was having my fit redone by the same bike shop that sold me the 650 frame. They suggested I move to a 700 with less of a seat angle. He said that knowing what they know now about fit I should be on a 700. It does look to me like more of your boderline cases will be on 700's
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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I would not agree that steep-angled, 650c bikes are on the way out by any means; however, the assertation that same said bikes are out of style in many European countries. It does have a lot to do with the fact that most tris are draft-legal. But like bell-bottoms, shag hair cuts, mullets and disco music, things do swing back around. I could even see a modern interpretation of the steel, lugged road bike coming back around. You never know.

You have to remember this: 650c wheels were in style in many European countries for time trials for a very long time before we got to see them. Many TT bikes were 700c rear X 650c front/24" front (not calling 650c interchangeable with 24" by any means- they're 2" apart) for many years, sometimes dual 650c, sometimes 650c X 24". 650c is old hat to them.

650c will not die for the smaller riders, and I could see a swing in the pendulum if Gerard has his way. We will have to see.

I switched back to 700c when my dream bike was shipped as a 650c (when it was a 700c). It fits like a glove and I have never looked back.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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I've been riding 650's since they were first on the market, and after riding 700c I have to say that I will stick to the smaller wheels. We are going to do some roll down tests here at Slowtwitch, but I'm sure that the 650's will win out. There are just so many advantages to the smaller wheel, and one negligible disadvantage. If they do however go by the wayside, it will be similar to the VHS putting BETA out of business. The better product does'nt always survive. Monty
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650 Wheels will be obselete when... [ In reply to ]
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short riders are obselete! As a proud member of the 5'6 club, I'll be riding 650 tri bikes for a while yet.


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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I would avoid letting this guy fit you on a bike and take any advice from him with a grain of salt.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Monty...How tall are you? I thought you were over 6 foot which would most likely put you in a 57cm frame (or bigger) which which make it difficult for you to get a frame that big built for 650c wheels.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Geoff Dickson] [ In reply to ]
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I know that in my past glory days that I may have seemed bigger than life, but the sad reality is that I'm 5'10". I can ride a 53cm, but opt for the 54 or 55 because of the longer top tubes. I have that long swimmer upper body to contend with. As for making frames to fit taller people, I remember when 24 inch wheels were all the rage, and they had no trouble making one for a former pro named Todd Jacobs who was about 6'4" or so. Paula Newby-Frazier rode those 24 inch wheels for many years, and if I'm not mistaken set the Ironman bike course record on them. My take was, that for the women, their average speed of about 4 miles an hour or so less than the men was ok with the extra rolling resistance. It seemed that the men that could average 28mph or so on the 40k were, just over the point of advantage of 24's. So all the guys dumped those bikes after one season. The women were all pretty happy with their performance on them. Just another reason that I like the 26's, they seem to have enough room in advantage, that they can accomidate the higher speeds. Just the observations of a smaller than life ex pro.....
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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What an uninformed comment for a bicycle retailer to make. If this person did any research (in the trade journals, here on slowtwitch in the Kona survey) they would know that 650c wheels are no more "on the way out" or "obsolete" than size 8 running shoes. There is a fundamental lack of understanding as to why certain riders NEED 650c wheels and certain riders are on 700c. It is a fit issue. Saying that 650c wheels are "out" is exactly the same as going in a running shoe store with a size 8 foot and having the salesperson say "Oh, no one uses size 8 anymore, everybody is doing size 9.5 now... It's faster." Like I said, there is a fundamental misunderstanding fo the role of wheel size in fitting. Read some of Dan Empfield's articles on wheel size on Slowtwitch and look for our expose' on wheel size in the coming weeks. While the retailer you were in may be a very good store, the person who told you that isn't current on their technical knowledge. How embarrassing- I pray this was not my store.... I was on vacation.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Welcome back Tom, you've been missed. No it was not your shop. His main point was that the major bicycle manufacturers were trying to move away from building so many different sized bikes (ie 54cm frame w/650c and 54cm frame w/700c). From a manufactureres stand point it means less materials on hand, fewer design concerns,etc.. Judgeing from one of the largest Bicycle Manufacturers in the world, TREK who at this point and time does not even build a 650c wheeled bike, this sort of makes sense. I am confident that the nitch companys such as Calfee, Kestrel, Quintana Roo, etc will continue to build 650c wheels bike, but what about TREK, Specialized, Cannondale or Litespeed?
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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I may respectfully suggest that Trek has demonstrated their (lack of) dedication to the triathlon market by pulling the Hilo (ryhmes with "Kilo"). In their case, they are a very well run company financially, and perhaps that was a decision made based on numbers. Their dealers are very good, but there are a lot of them, and not all of them may be interested in triathlon. Specialized? I'm not very well informed about them. Cannondale? Despite their recent reorg they are dedicated to triathlons based on their four tri bike offerings, three of which are very, very good. Litespeed? Hmmmm. Great bikes now. They aspire to rule the world. Ambition has a way of ruining companies... The real tri guys will remain dedicated to bikes that fit. That includes full size runs and wheel size options as sizing tools.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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The Trek thing just amazes me. The Hilo was a really nice bike but Trek couldn't sell many because they charged way more than a comparably equipped Cervelo One or Felt. You'd think that such a well run company would have targeted the niche market a little more agressively and perhaps we'd be seeing loads of them at the races instead of being extinct..... it is almost like they didn't care if they sold any.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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I drive dented up Subaru. You don't do tri bikes for the money. There is none...

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Trek has to get back in the market.I think it is going to be very soon.Maybe this summer.maybe not 650.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Cullen Watkins] [ In reply to ]
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I think Trek is dabbling a little with 650c, but not in the tri market but the WSD. The other day I saw a Trek 5200wsd, I can't remember what size, 48cm? but I know it had 650c wheels, it's what caught my eye from the rest of the 'regular' 5200s.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Luntzy] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how many men will discover that the WSD OCLV could be a slack-angled, 650c tri bike for those of us with more "compact" physiques?*



*I am not a very tall rabbit at all- I am 5'8", ears included.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [bunnyman] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't want to admit it, but I was looking at it for myself: )
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Luntzy] [ In reply to ]
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No shame in WSD for a man- just say that WSD stands for a Wabbit's Silly Design, or Winning Solid Dude, or Want Steak Dinner. I think I like the first and last "new" abbreviations best.

Get what fits even if it could mean a bit of embarassment- you could end up with the last laugh. You can always get the frame painted.
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Re: 650c Wheels Obsolete?? [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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It appeared to me that the price point they were hitting was good, and it appeared to be a farely popular bike. In fact there are 2 of them in our "spin gym". They do have a few design flaws such as the cable stops don't stay on. But all in all I thought they were a pretty good deal.
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