I think the ratio of women who decide to get 'follow up' surgery after an augmentation (usually to go even bigger, but also to correct for perceived sag etc.) definitely seems to point that even after surgery a lot of people don't find the self confidence they thought they were going to get (well, yeah, duh!).

I saw a documentary a while ago on one of those 18 year olds whose parents paid for the surgeon as a graduation present and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen (not to mention that after going under the knife 3 months down the road she decided to start saving for another operation to go even bigger).

Personally IMHO surgery should be used very sparingly and only when there is loss of function or significant disfigurement, I kind of find it disgusting how in today's society most advertising and media plays up women's insecurities (you look like crap! unless you buy my gee-whiz-bang product in which case you'll look great!) just to make a quick buck... one thing is stuff you can control (being in decent shape, being active, etc. etc.) but making somebody feel bad for something they have no control on (age, height, cup size, hair color) is really, really lame in my book.

It's really interesting to hear the male take on this. Sorry to pick on you Tom, but your posts here are a great example. You give a lot of great advice and are very compassionate towards people on this forum - I respect your opinion. Your response earlier was supporting booth's comments, which I'll sum up with "a rack is a rack." (Unless I misunderstood what you both meant.) Posts like that are part of what make me ask...sure - big boobs are great from a guy's perspective - I've got no problem with that, but...would you want to undergo surgery, would you want your daughter to, blah, blah, because I wonder how important a "rack" is really. But later you said that you don't advocate the surgery and talk about the insecurity issues. And people wonder why so many women are getting this done...maybe it's like the whole madonna/whore conundrum. That's probably another topic though. ;)

It's a strange thing, irongeek. You might be on to something with your madonna/whore reference. I'll admit I've dated girls with them(fakes) and definitely liked them, but I feel a little guilty for it, like I'm contributing to a problem.

I always thought that penis enlargement thing was a joke. It is, right? People don't actually do that, do they? I can't imagine that would even be possible.

I can't even say it w/o laughing.....penis enlargement....

[reply]so for all the pro-boob job guys - my question is: how do you feel about penis enlargement?[/reply]

irongeek,

What with all the Viagra ads and purchases and the implants, mine is over 40 feet long now! Do I get the job?

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.

all being taller will get you is more bumps on the head and the feet hanging off the bed, oh and how tall are you ? from about ten strangers a week

Penis enlargment

They cut a tendon at the base of your penis. This helps the stretching process. Yes stretching process. After you heal from surgery you wear wieghts on your John Thomas to induce stretching.

Of course this is shear stupidity but to you and Muscleboy this has got to be as forgien as the dark side of the moon. Insert stereotype here.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Because it IS a laugh.

Make you swing and not stand up straight at attention. Downward-pointing stiffy.

There is another one, but I haven't heard TOO much about it lately- silicone or other matter is inserted to give more "girth".

I want to pay lots of money for a very large, but possibly malfunctioning johnson- NOT!!!!!

I wasn't going to mention it, but since you brought it up...

That surgery is illegal in the US. You have to go to Mexico to have it done because it is considered very risky, as in, you have a 40% chance the little fella will never stand up and say hello ever again. The tendon is nestled between the veins and the nerve centers, as if to say, "Don't fuck around with me, you dolt!"

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If I am off base let me know. When Tom said "a racks a rack" it's usually true. We just like boobs. Not a lot of guys actually judge a chick on boob size. So I don't think women get surgery to get guys. If a woman says it's for men then it really doesn't have anything to do with impressing guys. I has to do with something deeper.

It always bugs me when women blame men for the problems women have with body image. A vast majority of men are pretty flexible on womens apperiance. Granted there are the men out there who are stupidly picky and if you are going out of your way to impress those guys then you have to ask why.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

The irony of beauty: If you are in a relationship with an unattractive person, they can be reasonably sure that it is because you love them. If you are in a relationship with a beautiful person, they will never be sure.

Also, when you truly love somebody, they are beautiful.

Oh, crap. I think I need to go get a tissue and a cup of General Foods International Coffee.

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You are right - didn't mean to imply it's the men's fault. If a woman is signing up for the surgery...that's her decision and her consequences no matter what prompted her. It's something I don't understand.

Never say never, but I can't imagine dating a man who is so caught up in physical attributes that he goes under the knife to alter his. So it always amazes me that men are attracted to women who make that choice (or encourage it). Particularly in a more athletic realm where health is the primary focus. But...to each his own. (If I chose elective surgery, I would probably be one of those freak cases who die from an allergy to the anesthetic or something...I'm composing the obituary in my head.)

I'm just interested in the responses and how the men who have dated/married women with implants feel about it. Don't mean to harsh on anyone. In my experience...men are really pretty good about all that stuff - they might watch the big boobs walk by, but they tend to choose the women they like to hang with, regardless of breast size or any other one attribute.

"I'm just interested in the responses and how the men who have dated/married women with implants feel about it."

Never have and never would. Unless it's for medical reasons. IMO plastic boobs equate to a plastic bimbo personality. People who alter their bodies surgically for cosmetic reasons must be very shallow and insecure individuals. I prefer women who have more confidence in themselves.

That my $.02.

Well, here's my take on it irongeek:

We're put on this earth with a certain set of stuff. I happen to be short and I was pretty fat when I was a kid. So, we do the best with what we've got- at least I do.

Now, does that mean getting a breast augmentation or reduction is bad? Certainly not. However, the motivation behind it may be unhealthy.

As far as physical attractiveness goes, (for whatever that is worth) the most attractive person is always the one who is comfortable with themselves as a person and their body. That is always conspicuous.

The last girl I dated who had cosemetic surgery was attractive before hand. She didn't need it. But SHE felt she did. As it turned out, it didn't go as planned. So she needed more. I knew she would do that. It is how she is. A well-moneyed control freak. She spends enormous amounts of time, effort, money and manipulation of other people to get things "her way". If they aren't her way, then its the highway.

Now, as for us evil men and our lewd, lacivious desires: Do I like big boobs? Sure. Basically, I like any boobs to be honest. They are soft, round and warm. I like that. But I don't make decisions on who I used to date based on that. I dated flat chested girls, overweight girls, pretty girls and nice and nice, pretty girls. I also dated some total losers.

If it all boiled down to breast size it would be easy. For about $8,000 a woman's problems could be pretty much solved.

But you and I know that has nothing to do with it at all. The problem is when people think it has everything to do with it- a man or a woman.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Well, I've got them. I didn't get them to attract men, I didn't get them due to low self esteem, I didn't get them because I felt I needed to live up to any ideal. After having 3 kids my formerly busty self was not what it used to be. And it's not that I have a problem with being flat chested - I was fine with that. I just didn't like the way I looked. Anyone who's been there will know what I'm talking about.

I work out and do triathlon not only for health reasons and because it makes me feel good and give me energy in spades - I do it also because I like the way it makes me look. I'm strong and fit and I look it. My breasts, however, I couldn't do a thing about no matter how many times a day I worked out. So for me the right choice was to have augmentation. Is it right for everyone? No. Neither is triathlon. And I was lucky - no complications (so far) though I recogonize that I will need another surgery at some point because nothing lasts forever. Doing this was completely about me. And if that makes me a narcissist, well, I've been called worse.
Further - if there was a guy who I thought was interested in me for only that reason, I wouldn't have the time of day for him. It's not all about appearances.
My husband? He likes them. But that's not what attracted him to me. He was never a "breast man." It was our mutual interests that brought us together.
Now, several years later, I don't even thing about them too much. Kind of like my tattoos, there just there and I tend not to really see them.

Pictures! I didn't believe a word you said about anything. We need photo evidence. It would be nice if yo would skip the high heels that looks wierd.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Oh... well nevermind then. The only photos I have I've got the high heeled boots on... :-)

You're having a bad day, Mr. Tibbs, and I'd love to accomodate you, but I've seen what happens when a photo gets posted on this forum!

Well, I don't think you are totally off base BUT, there is a tremendous amount of pressure put on women in this society to conform to a certain body type. It is insidious and ubiquitous and studies have shown that it starts to impact girls when they are 10 or 11. This pressure does not come from men exactly, but rather a vast marketing machine that has a vested interest in making us feel that we need to buy products to make us acceptable. Some people lay blame on the fashion industry, like this (funny) article "Is Anna Wintour Satan?"(http://pix.popula.com/...vintage/wintour.html). But it has also been my experience that men's opinions on the attractiveness of women are subject to this societal pressure.

The pervasiveness of the American obsession with women's appearance (and our narrow definition of attractiveness) rears it's head often around successful women. Note the countless jokes about Janet Reno, Madeleine Albright, and Hilary Clinton's "attractiveness" or "femininity" or lack thereof. Sometimes it seems that no matter what you achieve as a woman, your "sexiness" will always be judged at the end of the day.

It can be hard for even well-adjusted women to shut off this constant message that we don't measure up physically, especially as we age, have babies, etc.

This constant evaluation of physical attributes just doesn't seem to be applied to men in the same way. Of course, the analogy to this societal tyranny for men this society is that they are judged by their "success" (read "financial success").

I agree with you completely.

My first thoughts on seeing this thread and the length of it was that no man, not even Lance, gets critiqued as closely as Kirsten has! I haven't seen endless speculation about his clothing, motives, psychology, societal pressures, career tactics, etc, all due to his appearance. He may be judged, but it's not on the basis of the size of his thighs.

Cerveloguy,

You hit the nail on the head. Be comfortable with what ya got!!

Your %100 right but I still think a lot of the problem is women attacking and pressuring other women. I have more lady friends than guy friends so I hear them talk when they forget I'm a man. Heartless and cold blooded you are. My lord.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

You aren't kidding, Tibbs. Women(obviously not all) can be absolutely brutal towards each other regarding looks. It can be very uncomfortable to hear.

Yes, girls seem to be so mean to each other. I have heard so many stories about female friends growing up and crying because of the 'razzing' they got from there female peers. I know my daughter has come home from school crying because some kids said something mean. She is only 7, so I can only imagine it gets worse.

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Reverend Dr. Jay
Lake of the Pines Triathlon fastest bike course record holder - Golden State Super Sprint fastest tri course record holder - Wildflower Long Course slowest run course record holder (4:46:32)

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"If you have a body, you are an athlete." -Bill Bowerman

i didn't mean to critique kristin directly, but her name was mentioned, so i used it.

This thread started out relating to cosmetic plastic surgery. Lance, while he may very well have had some cosmetic surgery (the whole testicular cancer thing, he might have a prosthetic), had a what i would consider a viable reason to do so. No one is criticising kristin on her appearence, but rather on her decision to undergo cosmetic surgery and the motives for doing so.

I, and from what i gather, several members of this forum, do not judge on the basis of a women's measurements. I am judging women who get cosmetic surgery on what i believe to be there motives and state of self awareness/conscienceness. I may judge girls who get fake breast, but not on their cup size.

M,en in general, are happy to have a woman they can relate to, and share lifes experiences, and sex, with. I think women tend to imagine and foster among themselves what they might consider to be societies visceral femenine ideals.

That is so true.

Guys can fight one minute and be friends the next. Girls hold grudges for years. I once interviewed a bunch of girls who were all having problems with each other. These were high school seniors. When I asked one of them what the problem was her first statement was, "well, it started in third grade." On the other hand, yesterday we had a fight between to guys. Pretty decent fight with some blood draw. The two left as friends.