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IM Envy (or disdain)
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I am so torn. I cannot wait to achieve the Ironman Goal - but at the same time I cannot bring myself to enlist in an actual IM event. The price of admission, while maybe justifiable, is outrageously high. Entering a non IM, iron distance event seems far wiser. But I'm worried that my level of elation following the event will not be as great. I know I'm just buying into the hype. So, do I just fork out the cash to enter IMW or IMFLA or do I save my $$ and sign up for the Duke Blue Devil or GFT?

I could do the latter this year.. the IM's will have to wait until next.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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This is just my opinion: Enter an official Ironman event administered by World Triathlon Corporation. When you consider the logistical magnitude of the event it is worth what they are asking. Yes, they have had some disasters (IM Utah), but that is an inevitabiity in endurance sports. WTC is the most seasoned and experienced Ironman distance event promoter. Based on the 3 WTC events I have done Irecommend them 100%. Good races cost money- It's money well spent.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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I'll bite. I've not done either of the races you mentioned, but I have raced IMF and volunteered at the crit-style Ironman in Montreal. IMF was a production. It was an incredibly entertaining week in a fun place (the people made it fun - PC was a graveyard in November...), and because it was a travel-to race, it felt more serious. That said, it was expensive and "all I got was this lousy t-shirt..." The people were doing an Ironman, and they were damn happy about it.

The indy-IM distance race in Montreal was very different. The people were doing an Ironman distance race and knew they would be asterisking it in conversations with friends later. The race was very well organized (relatively easy when it's on a small island) and the people were great. The atmosphere was fun.

I think you need to ask yourself WHY you are doing an IM. If you want to go to Hawaii (and I do, deeply), then you have to do a WTC race. Start saving. If you want to prove to yourself that you can go the distance, do one of the indy races and spend the extra cash on food and nice stuff for yourself or your family. Or go to Long Course world's, which I think would be just as awesome and from what I understand are also very well-organized.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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I completely agree with your sentiments... then I thought about this...

The support is incredible. What will that be worth to you at mile 18 of the run?

If you travel... you will spend $1500 may 2 grand for the trip. You probably spent that much or at least half again for your bike. An extra couple hundred is not that much money.

However... I hear great things about Floridian and other noe IM races.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [MS.kansan] [ In reply to ]
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I've done 2 GFT's and then the 1/2 last year. It's a fine race to get your feet wet, kind of your AG's IM distance race. A lot of support on the run... you run the 7 mile lake loop x3 so your never more than 1 mile from an aide station. You might want to consider it or DBD for this year, there's a learning curve and you would be that much ahead for a WTC event in 04. You finish either one of those you won't feel cheated.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, what others have said: WHY are YOU doing it?

I've done official IM events (Cal 00; IM NZ x 2) and IM-distance (UltraMax, Vineman). I know who I am and why I do it and I don't need Lou and Graham to validate my sense of worth. In fact, I have NO urge to do an IMNA event, but that's just me. I'll keep going to NZ or maybe IM Brazil in 2004. I'll probably do Vineman this summer as a recent turn of events (upcoming surgery and yesterday's auto accident) has put me out of IM NZ 2003. But I'll be there to drink the beer.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with the majority here - I've done both types of races. I can say unequivocally that doing a WTC race as your first IM is the only way to fly. The whole vibe of race week, the production, the support and so forth - it's just such an absolutely incredible experience and one that you will never, ever forget. You will spend so much time training that you owe it to yourself to take the prettiest girl to the best ball.





"To give less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." - Pre

MattMizenko.com
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Post deleted by puskas [ In reply to ]
Quelle Challenge Roth!!!! [ In reply to ]
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Looking for a bargain ... go to Roth. Now that it is no longer an M-dot race, the entry fee is half of what you'll pay for an IMNA race which will help towards the cost of getting there. My wife and I went in 2001. The entire trip, including accomodations, flight, car rental and entertainment was around $3500-4000 (Canadian dollars). The race is established (one of the oldest irondistance races in the world), with an outstanding pro field, 100 000 spectators and all of the excitement of travelling and doing an awesome race. I've never been to Hawaii yet so I'm planning on doing an IMNA race next to see if I can get a spot but I plan on going back to Roth in a few years.
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Re: Quelle Challenge Roth!!!! [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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My 1st IM is Idaho in June. No way would I have considered a non sanctioned event for the first one. The overall cost of doing this event climbs ever and ever higher (yikes). However I may or may not ever do another one. I want the best chance of having a good experience. Next time around (if ever) I may do less expensive nonsanctioned events that are closer to home (Vineman full comes to mind). That being said, the rest of my racing after IM will be small venue, affordable events. I'll have spent enough.
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Re: Quelle Challenge Roth!!!! [chrismaginn] [ In reply to ]
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what, exactly is wrong with "buying into the hype"? its fun. ever go to a home packer game in lambeau field? that is buying into the hype and there is nothing better in all of sport. enjoy. i have no idea who "lou and graham" are and i don't care to - that is a lot to be thinking about when all you have to do is swim/bike/run and enjoy the fact that there is a jumbotron and banners and all the hoopla of the superbowl around while you do. for most of the world, triathlon IS m-dot. triathlon is lucky as hell to have it. i am happy as hell to support it. it makes for a r-e-a-l-l-y good first IM, i can tell our original poster that much. figure the money divided into each workout you do, and the entertainment aspect of getting ready and the race is free, if you ask me.
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Re: Quelle Challenge Roth!!!! [t-t-n] [ In reply to ]
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If you really need hype....go for it! Personally, I don't. In fact, I'm pretty much an anti-hype gal. Ask Dan, Plumb or anyone who knows me. I'd rather race where my friends/family are and more often than not, that's NZ. Though, I have been known to do race the Half Cali IM. I guess I'd put that on sorta-hype list, but I do it since I usually know more than 50 people racing.

Lou = Lew Friedland (my bad on misspelling his name when I know better)...head of WTC. They are the hype folks in case you don't know.

Graham = Graham Fraser...head of IM North America. They'd be the North America hype folks.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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I kind of agree with you. The Mdot races are way too expensive. Then I saw the new CaliforniaMan race J&A is putting on in Sacto area. Close to home for me but fees there are even higher at $400. I am never quite sure if these races are really than expensive to put on or the gross margins are ridiculously high. Since I live in Sonoma County I sometimes watch the Vineman race. The finish (even last year as sanctioned Mdot race) was pretty boring with little in the way of action, fans or facilities. I hope you still have fun Cathy! The scenery is pretty...the bike course is one of my training rides each week.
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I did Utah and WI last year and for everything [ In reply to ]
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that was wrong with Utah from making us sit outside in 90 degree weather for hours waiting for that Athletes meeting etc etc.

I will say that WI was one of the best experiences of my life, for the people I met along the way, the people I met there, the atmosphere, the venue I'd go as far to say that I am doing CDA this year but my biggest regret is not having signed back up for WI. WI was everything that Utah was not and I would reccomend to anyone for their first IM to sign up and buy in because it really is an incredible experience / event.

That said I dont have any desire to do FL or LP or really CDA other than it is it's first year.

I want to go back to WI and will in 04 and 05 and hopefully for a few times after that.

Other than that the only other race I have an overwhelming desire to do is Roth.

After CDA this year the only IMNA event I'll do again is IMWI and if I do 2 a year it will be either GFT, Duke, Ozarks or one of the other generics :)
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Marlin] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I agree completely with the sentiments expressed...
"I think you need to ask yourself WHY you are doing an IM. If you want to go to Hawaii (and I do, deeply), then you have to do a WTC race. Start saving. If you want to prove to yourself that you can go the distance, do one of the indy races and spend the extra cash on food and nice stuff for yourself or your family. Or go to Long Course world's, which I think would be just as awesome and from what I understand are also very well-organized." I've participated in IMFL and the Esprit (Montreal) ironman distance race. Both offer great venues. IMFL offers a chance to qualify for Hawaii as an added bonus, plus it has the backing of an established race organization. Esprit is quite interesting from a "travel" point of view...being that although you're in Canada, it's almost like traveling overseas, because of the heavy French influence on the culture (if you're interested in sight seeing...Montreal has pleanty to offer). Either race has its' own personality...and these two aren't necessarily the only ones out there.
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Drop the hype [ In reply to ]
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While I've never done an IM (WTC or otherwise) I've run plenty of marathons, both of the hype and crowds and some of the local running clubs Sat. morning long run variety. My best ever marathon - meaning the one I'll remember the longest and will never fade like the others do is the Baton Rouge Marathon put on by the Running Chicken Track Club. There were 400 runners max, it was 80 degrees at the finish and we had alligator jambalya and corona at the finish line. I was one of the few people there that came in from out of town and I completely enjoyed the informal feel of it. We were running a marathon not for hype but for the love of it. Hype can never compare.

Besides, where else can a 4 hr marathon run get me a 2nd place AG trophy? I can't wait until old age and a fading memory has helped me "remember" the finer points of that marathon.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I see you did the Ultramax in missouri. How hard did you think it was? How did it compare to other races? Did the heat affect you?
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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I've done GFT and IMFL and prefered IM FL becuase:

1. More athletes, more spectators, more aid stations
2. The chance to run along side Paula or any other top pro
3. Really well organized and run
4. Cooler logo which is good for shirts, hats, etc.

I say buy the hype. You won't regret it.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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Hype is fine, but in the end its all about achieving your goal. Whether you do that at an IM race or non IM race
should not really matter. Decide how much you are willing to spend on the hype part of the equation and go from there.

And on a practical note, supporting some of the new non-Mdot races is probably one
of the best things we can do for our sport. Tend to make everyone a bit more responsive to the customer.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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Make it an adventure and a fun trip. You will spend a lot of money on entry fees, travel, training, equipment, hotels and all that. Make it an someplace you want to go.

I have done IMF 3 times. I enjoy going to PCB and their great beach. I always have lots of friends down their racing. Family and SOs are usually there. It is a blast. The race is also well done production. Kind of an event for Atlantans- many travel just to watch it.

I have travelled for a few halfs also. The Half Vineman was a lot of fun. I got to go out to SF, drive through wine country for the race, do a great race, and spend some time in that part of California. Well worth it.

I travelled to Clermont, to do the half there. The race was so-so. The location sucks. It is hot, there are bugs, the lake is a little crappy lake, there is NOTHING to do in the general area. I have never gone back. And I was born in Orlando. The area stinks imho. You could drive to Disney World after the race I suppose if you want ot visit a rat.

So I would say, if you want to do a race, go do one where you would like to visit. Vineman would be my first non-Mdot race. Maybe the Ultramax in Missouri- supposed to be nice mountains. My next Mdot, if not Hawaii, will be Lake Placid. I just want to see the area. I have friends who go to Canada, Australia, Austria, Germany and so one. Go where you want to go.

---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [Charlie] [ In reply to ]
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I started last year with the goal of doing IM Moo. Unfortunately, due to work conflicts, I thought it was a better choice to do the Pineman instead. I'm a no frills kinda guy I guess.

I was a bit sheepish at first, as I had wanted to do a "real" ironman event. I got over that soon enough. I asked myself what my real goals were. In the end, i realized that all the reasons the posters above talk about; weeklong festivities, great aid stations, atmosphere, were just icing on the cake to my original goal.

My philosophy is that 140.6 miles is 140.6 miles. Who cares if there was a nifty race expo the day prior. I had a very educational and rewarding experience at my race (massive cramps caused by sodium depletion at mile 1 of the run notwithstanding). I do not think that makes my experience less because of lack of WTC involvement.

Last point, unless all your friends are tri-geeks, the only race anyone outside tri-circles knows or cares about is IMH. But everyone will be impressed just by the fact that you put yourself through an ironman distance race, no matter where it was or who put it on.
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [denewone] [ In reply to ]
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In response to the question about Ultramax-I did the inaugural race last year. You can not ask for better support. Also the amenities are far better than that in M-dot (from what I have heard). Plus the fees support a very excellent cause. By the time I finished the spectators had left, so if you need cheering crowds IMWI is your better option. I will be volunteering this year at Ultramax since I am doing IMFL.

In response to the original post why not do a indy race this year and WTC next?
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [skeets] [ In reply to ]
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I agree....Ultramax was fabulous! Mark and gang put on a super race. The organization and volunteers were top notch. Sure, there could always be more crowds, but I don't need that when I race. I think the fact that the race organizers have something like over 20 IM finishes amongst them really helps, since they know what the athletes want.

I'd go back this year, but I think I'll be running short on vacation time. I hear they totally changed the bike course, which is a bummer. It's now much easier and not the +8,000 feet of climbing like last year. The heat didn't really bother me, but it did end up being 85F and sunny that day. That's the Midwest....it could have been 40F or 85F or anything in between.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I signed up for the GFT this year as my first iron distance race. I did this because of the timing of the race and the proximity to disney world. I will take the family to disney after the race. I am looking forward to the chance to do my first IM. I thought about all of the mdot races, but gravitated to the GFT. I think I did this becaue I did another race in Clermont years ago (Olympic distance) and it was the best run race I have ever been a part of. I have done all of hte Colorado races and I felt the Clermont experience was better than the Boulder Peak or The Cheynee (sp) Mountain race.



My 2 cents
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Re: IM Envy (or disdain) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I also really liked the bike course. I think Mark et al listened to the moaning flatlanders too much. Also there were a lot of complaints about the heat but geez aren't we supposed to be tough? I thought it quite pleasant. I'm doing the 1/2 Ultramax in June. I expect another fantastic day is in store.
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