Hi Ian,
would be greateful to get your opinion, I think my last post missed in your queue.

thanks
Adam

I've posted some photos here showing the pads side by side, note I have the monobar at the max distance of 4 and the width spacers on the grip, I also have the highest angle radsport angle spacer for tilt.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Ey_vMVEigU5sG7ML8WTa-sT7h-jwW2MR?usp=sharing


For my general opinion on the tririg vs the stock canyon
It was difficult to find a position in which the predrilled holes on the tririg pads would fit the hole layout of the bike. I have them angled in pretty tight right now, have yet to ride like this since I just got them over the weekend, but I think I may have to test out other ways and try to find something else that can work a bit straighter.
I don't think they add much width at all(maybe 1cm if I'm being generous) and wouldn't advise them if that's the purpose you're looking for. In the photo where they're set out side by side it appears the tririgs are wider but to be honest I was shocked when I lined them up like that, they look almost identical on the bike if not the stock canyon pads looking wider when mounted.

This amazing. Thanks for putting up the photos really helps. They definitely look wider in the photos. I’m not even looking for a cm to be honest so might work. The only thing I’m now reserved about is your note re the angle? Can the tririg arm rests not be positioned on the bike where the most inner holes on the arm cups are on the most outer holes on the bar plates?

I didn't spend a ton of time lining it up but it was tricky to get it exactly. I can go back down later today and give it another go and take a video so you can see better I was trying to put them pretty high up due to being on the edge of the reach number. They do have the undrilled option too but I was a little nervous drilling carbon and figured I'd make the predrilled work. With the predrilled option you can see there's quite a few holes and since they're so close I wouldn't drill any more out due to not wanting to really have a big hole in any of them.

That would be cool thanks. Just to confirm the model of these ones are the open scoops and not the open SL scoops?

These are the closed back scoops. Not the SL version, I'm unsure if the width is any different on closed vs open back.

Edit: I've added a few more photos and a video to the gallery above. It seems that there are more fit options straight than I originally thought. However for me personally I'm leaving the pads angled for the time being as it allows me to get them to be forward more which will hopefully solve my issues.

The one thing that worries me putting them so far off to the side is putting all that pressure on the cups versus on the rest, but these do seem pretty thick and strong.

Hi Ian,

My 2018 rim brake Speedmax CF came to an untimely end last week, so I'm now looking at options for replacement.

My old Speedmax was an XL, whereas when I put my height / inseam into the ordering page on the new disk brake Speedmax, it suggests size L.

I don't have the exact stack/reach coordinates handy at present, as the bike is away being assessed for insurance.

Has the overall geometry changed such that it's possible I would be better served on an L? Or am I best to just stick with the XL?

Height: ¬194cm
Inseam: ¬92cm

Thanks

 

Adam,
Thanks for the bump to remind me.
Based on your Seat Height (770), Pad Y (705), and Pad X (490).... the right Canyon Speedmax CF is a size Medium. That bike comes stock with an 80mm stem that will work nicely for you and you'll use some of the arm pad pedestal to get the Pad Y right. You'll have room to go lower as you like as well.

All the best, Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

mrsly,
Sorry to hear about untimely end. Yes, the new disc brake bike is a bit taller and that might allow for you to be on a large rather than an XL. After the bike is finished with the insurance assessment, and if this is possible, I'd like you to try and measure the Pad Y and Pad X off it so we can shop accordingly. Failing that come back to me here and I can make a good guess.

Ian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZa8UIIwrYE

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Hi,
I just ordered my SLX in size M, simply based on their calculator.
HEIGHT 183CM
LEG 83CM
FOREARM 35CM

(My guidelines: Full ironman distance but aiming for fairly aggressive position. No specific course but will mostly be racing on mildly rolling hills. I'm not super flexible but do have experience holding a reasonably tucked position having done several full distance races including Kona this year.)

I haven't had a bike fit yet and I don't think measurements of my road bike (Giant TCR L with tri bars) nor my previous TT bike which didn't actually have any adjustability in the cockpit would be useful (?). Now I'm hit with the customization options and feel a bit lost.
1. Am I safe with the M frame size or is it imperative that i get a dynamic bike fit first to confirm?
2. And: do I need a full fit before entering my customizations? So far I see options for stem length, rise bar options (high/low, short/long). I can imagine they'll ask about stack height next.

Thank you for any guidance!!

Hi Ian,

I went and had a look at the bike - measurements aren't perfect, as the bike is missing the armpads, extensions and saddle. So I've made some approximations.

Height: ~193cm
Inseam: ~92cm

Seat post: 78cm
Saddle: ~5.5cm
Saddle height: ~83.5

Reach:
Wall to centre bottom bracket: ~99cm
Wall to back of basebar: ~50cm
Reach: ~49-51cm

Stack:
Floor to centre bb: 29cm
Floor to top basebar: 96cm
Approximate for mount + pads: 5cm
Approximate for spacers: 3-5cm
Stack: ~75-77cm

Let me know what you think.
Thanks, mrsly

Opdefiets,
yeah... the road bike with clipons... everything about set up says "up and back" and that's just NOT what a modern tri bike is, and it's certainly not going to yield a "fairly aggressive position."
They will not ask about stack height next since "stack" is a term describing a specific bit of frame geometry that has no baring on your connection to this bike.
If you're gonna get fit then you should absolutely get fit first, before you buy. That way you have Pad Y/Pad X to perfect purchase AND you have all your fit coordinates so that the fit is finished before the bike is even acquired. You'd need to be fit by a fitter educated in the triathlon position, experienced fitting triathletes and.. this part's critical... they own/use a dynamic fit bike (Guru, Purely Custom, Muve, Shimano, or Exit - those are the only ones made, it's gotta be one of those).

Barring that... You've given me some info to work with... so here I go.
Based on your morphology; fairly long legs for your height. And based on your desire to ride "aggressive" which I take to mean longish and lowish. I suspect your Pad Y is in the neighborhood of 650 and your Pad X is ~ 480. To that end I do think a Speedmax SLX (same geo as CFR) would me a size Medium. I think you might get by with the short "stem" that comes stock on the bikes in the US and probably a mid spacer (which also come built into the bikes in the USA) but there's a box with every bike that has a low spacer, high spacer, wedges for tilt, and manner of bolts to make them all work. While I'm confident about the Pad Y and you'll have room to move with the spacers, the Pad X is another matter. You might need the longer stem and if you're ordering from a country where you can choose before you buy then I'd suggest the longer cockpit. I think the flat bar is fine, you won't have so much aerobar pedestal that you'll need the riser bar. And I think the medium aero extension would be fine.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

mrsly,
I have a life mission to reduce the confusion between the terms Stack and Reach - terms used to describe the top of the head tube on a bicycle and "Pad Y / Pad X" which speak to the back of the arm pad on a tri bike. Very different things, thanks for putting up with my policing these terms of art.

Here's what's interesting... If you just came in to this thread saying: "never owned a bike, I'm 193cm tall with 92cm inseam and I'm a pretty normal/healthy person" I would have said.... your Pad Y is prolly 690ish, your Pad X is about 505 and the proper Canyon Speedmax CF disc brake bike is a size large with the 90mm stem that comes stock and the 25mm spacer under that stem with another 5-10mm of aerobar pedestal.

But you've come with a estimated Pad Y of 760 and Pad X of 500.. That Pad Y seems very high to me based on your morphology, and also the max Pad Y on a 2018 CF was 720ish... but let's say for a moments that those are your numbers then (760/500)... it's still a Speedmax CF disc brake bike in a size large with the stock 90mm stem and then (for 760) install every single possible pedestal in the box (55mm) with the absolute longest bolts and boom, you've got a Pad Y of 760. I think you'll ride lower for a bunch of reasons not the least of which is this critical factor - your old bike came with 175mm cranks. That old world thinking is behind us now and you'd do so very well on 165s. That will give your hip the freedom to ride lower... say 730 or 710 or 690 and this bike will fit that beautifully.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Totally fair. :)


Interesting. Based on my looking at the sizing charts, I had been leaning towards the XL. I felt I was sitting in the middle of the XL ranges, where I was closer to the extremes on the L, and therefore I'd have more flexibility for adjustment overall on the bigger bike.

I'm a bit puzzled about the measurements seeming high, as I don't think I look particularly high on the bike, etc. Maybe I've overestimated how many spacers I had on the existing bike before I pulled the bars off to frankenbike my roadie for the race. Hopefully I'll have that back tonight, so can take a better look.

I have already switched to shorter cranks - was running 170s rather than the stock 175.

Hey Ian,

I'm scrambling trying to find a bike and am looking at the CF 8 or CF SLX 8. Could I get your input on sizing? My dimensions are below.

Stack: 739
Reach: 502
Saddle Height: 825

I think in the long run I may end up longer and lower (this is my first tri back in a decade and am just trying to get back into it).

I attached my fit report below if that helps.

Thank you so much for your help!!

MB

MB,
Lot's of good info, thank you.
I have a life mission to reduce the confusion between the terms Stack and Reach - terms used to describe the top of the head tube on a bicycle and "Pad Y / Pad X" which speak to the back of the arm pad on a tri bike. Very different things, thanks for putting up with my policing these terms of art.
I do wish Retul wouldn't lean into the confusion with "Pad Stack and Pad Reach" - but...now, finally, rant over.

With these numbers Pad Y of 739, Pad X of 502 and SH of 825...
If you got the SLX it would be would have to be an XL, the short stem will work and you'll need the high spacer, mid extension

If you got the CF it would be a size Large, 90mm stem that comes stock and ~45mm of arm pad pedestal.

And, yes you could go lower and long in the future with both of these prescribed bikes.

Side note here... I read your entire fit report (and saw pics). 170mm cranks are not short enough for you. You should be riding 160s probably (165 if you had to). That move alone (to 160) would increase your seat height to 835, your pad elevation would then be 80mm of drop (rather than 70) - and maybe you'd go longer maybe not. The reason I say this is because your there's too much flesh meeting up at the top of the pedal stroke. Shorter cranks would open that hip angle for less impingement and you'd flow over the top of your pedal circle with greater easy/speed.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Hi Ian,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply!

I followed your recommendation and got a dynamic fit yesterday which I thought was a great experience. It did stir up some new questions that I'll outline below and in the attached chart.

The SLX (Size "M" frame) I ordered is being held for me for a few more days. Currently, there are no other SLX bikes available. I thought it might be good to see how a CF frames would fit as well.

My size and saddle height is indeed telling me that I can only (!) go for frame size 'M', at least for the SLX frame:

My Height: 183cm
CF 7 & 8 M 174 - 186 (Mid: 180) - good / CF 7 & 8 L 186 - 196 (Mid: 191) - L appears too large
SLX M 178 - 186 (Mid: 182) - good / SLX L 186 - 196 (Mid: 191) - L is too large
Bike Fit -> Saddle Height (Bracket-Saddle): 772
CF7 M 696 - 846 (Mid: 771) / CF7 L 730 - 880 (Mid: 805) - L would still be Ok
CF8 M 706 - 856 (Mid: 781) / CF8 L 740 - 890 (Mid: 815) - Both L & M workable.
SLX M 735 - 855 (Mid 795) / SLX L 775 - 895 (Mid 835) - L is too large

I hadn't realized that CF7 and CF8 have different measurements at first. Anyway, here is where my measurements fit into the ranges of possibilities of the different frames:
My Bike Fit Pad Stack 685
CF7 M 581 - 691 (Mid: 636) / CF7 L 619 - 729 (Mid: 674)
CF8 M 629 - 723 (Mid: 676) / CF8 L 663 - 757(Mid: 710)
SLX M 581 - 691 (Mid 636) / SLX L 619 - 729 (Mid 674)

My Bike Fit Pad Reach 460
CF7 M 408 - 461 (Mid: 434.5) / CF7 L 430 - 484 (Mid: 457)
CF8 M 416 - 495 (Mid: 455.5) / CF8 L 448 - 527 (Mid: 487.5)
SLX M 408 - 463 (Mid 435.5) / SLX L 430 - 484 (Mid 457)

Therefore:
- CF7 M: Not good. Not enough room to go forward.
- CF7 L: Good. The saddle will be just slightly low but reach and stack are right in the middle.
- CF8 M: Good. Right in the middle for all values.
- CF8 L: Not good. Not much room to go lower.
- SLX M: Not good. The saddle height is perfect but there's no room to move forward (or higher/will need a high spacer which I'm guessing isn't ideal)
- SLX L Not good. Pad Stack & Pad Reach look great, but the saddle height would be too low for me.

I have no prior experience here. And perhaps this is overkill or I'm embarrassing myself because all this is completely off. It certainly seems strange. But it looks to me SLX isn't really workable but either the CF8 'M' or the CF7 'L' would work just fine.
CF8 M is listed as out of stock until 2024. Leaves me with CF7 L?

Other pieces of info from the bike fit:
- I was advised to change the crank length to 160mm or 165mm if unavailable (165mm is what happens to be used on the S and XS frames), instead of the standard 170mm. Perhaps Canyon will allow me to swap those out before shipment.
- My recommended extension length 410 can be achieved with the SLX Aerobar Large which has 360–440 mm (Mid 400). (I haven't checked this for CF.)
- My current Pad Width setup is 180 so the SLX would have been ok there.

Thank you again!

Hi -

I've had a bike fit done and picked up a CF 8 Disc in size small. I've got longer legs and shorter torso, and currently have terrible flexibility that I'm working to address, so reach was a bit compromised. While I work on flexibility, what are my options for armrests that will allow mounting a little rearward on the PD Subsonic brackets? Any other feedback on things to consider?



Thanks,
Bryan

Hey Ian,

I have recently made an order for a new Canyon Speedmax CFR Di2. I do not have a prior tri bike fitting to use and canyon sizing calculator has me on a small or with a minor increase in either height/inseam on a Medium. My height is 5'-10" and inseam 33". I have no idea what my X&Y dimensions are although canyon did spec out a short stem & Medium bar lenght to suit.

I decided to order a Medium as i was thinking small would not be the correct size, Does this seem incorrect?

Happy Christmas / Holidays

Opdefiets,
I don't consider any of this overkill.. triathlon is complicated and it's so worth it to do this sort of research, diligence, education on bikes.

I want to start with the bits that matter. Pad X and Pad Y tell us what bike to buy. My guess was Pad Y at 656 and Pad X at 480 and your fit resulted in 685/460. Right away I'm curious (suspicious?) of a few things and would love to see a picture of your final spot. I worry that the saddle might not have been one that allowed you to perch off the nose comfortable (or maybe you're weren't offered a steep enough seat angle in a final trial). Anyway, it doesn't matter a whole lot because if you're position starts at 685/460 and evolves lower & longer the bike we prescribe needs to give you the freedom to move in that direction. But now I'm prescribing with 685/460

If it's an SLX (or CFR, same in terms of fit)... Medium, high spacer, mid extension, short stem... everything we stated before (at 656-480). That's a fine fit.

If it's a CF, and let me start by saying the CF7, CF8 they are all same: same Frame Stack 'n Reach, same stems, same base bar, same aerobars - same geometry. The 7 and 8 refer to the "build" - level of groupset, wheels, and of course price. Size medium, it'll come with an 80mm stem - perfect! you'll be very much in the middle of the range so plenty of room to move in all directions but I suspect it'll be forward and down.

Now, some side notes... If you're in the USA Canyon will not allow you to swap parts before purchase. What often do is order the cranks want then you order the bike and then when you open the box, pull the cranks that come on the bike and sell them as "new, never ridden". I'd go to 160 for sure even if you have to leave Shimano and buy Rotor or Cobb's SpeedandComfort it's worth it. The 410 extension length... that's harder for me to know here in text. With the CF it doesn't matter, the SLX would need the long extension but, again, if you're in USA it'll come with the medium and if that doesn't work you'd order the long after.

Get back to me with more questions if/when you have 'em.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Which saddles were you fit with?

What crank arm lengths did you try during the fit?

Hi Jim -

The fit sheet recommends an ISM or Watt Flow saddle; I was fit on a Watt Flow, but I’m not sure which specific model. I haven’t changed out the stock Fizik saddle yet.

The fitter also recommended 165mm cranks - he tested lengths bigger and smaller, but I can’t recall how far he went in either direction.

I haven’t spent much time on the bike yet, but interested in options that would provide more adjustability fore / aft with the armrest - they’re currently as far rearward as they’ll go.

Cheers,
Bryan

Wow! Thanks for your help again. A lot of info. I'll respond in bullet points to keep this somewhat organized for me. If M works, that would be perfect!

- All my data are from the Canyon website - the "geometry" charts of the individual bikes. There, I noticed that CF 7 & 8 have different numbers. Thanks for clearing up that they're indeed the same. Although I'm not sure which of the numbers I would need to go with if I do take another look at the CFs.
- The SLX/CFR L size geometry specifies Saddle Height range of 775 - 895. Mine is 772. My bike fitter still said to go for size 'L' because my front end (stack & reach) gives better range in all directions on the L frame. At first I thought he didn't check the saddle height range, but he replied that that range actually extends lower if you don't use the rear bottle.
- I'm in Taiwan. Hopefully I can swap that crank. Thanks for outlining the swapping process should I have to do this post purchase!
- My saddle angle is -5.5 degrees and the ISM PN1.0 worked best. I used that on my previous TT bike (which I no longer have) and currently use it on my road bike w tri bars where I also have it set up with a - 5 or 6 degree angle.
- You said "If it's an SLX (or CFR, same in terms of fit)... Medium, high spacer, mid extension, short stem... everything we stated before (at 656-480). That's a fine fit." If I can just go forward with the M that's in my shopping basket that would be great. But I'm a bit confused because the geometry chart suggests to me that at my 460 reach I'm already at the end of the range (408-463) and wouldn't be able to move forward. Are the 656-480 numbers that you use my potential future position? Isn't the 480 reach beyond the range of the M? And I should go for the mid extension and short stem? I thought I need to push things as far forward as possible to get to 460. Please help me understand where I'm making the mistake. Really can't thank you enough, Ian.
- Attaching pictures and measurements from the fit.

All my best!!

Hi Ian,
Interested to know, how far you can get my fit.
Reach back of pad 525mm
Stack pad 560mm
So very long and low. Long torso, very short legs
Thanks

Hey, Ian. A friend is looking at the Speedmax 8 CF. Here are the fit measurements from his last fit. I see a medium for him, but just wanted to see if it was correct before he orders, IF they ever come in.